dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: j_mac
dNewton,
The armorer I mentioned (that you tried to make fun of) is the premier Glock armorer in your hometown of Indianapolis Indiana. He is the armorer for the Indianapolis Police Department, the Secret Service and the FBI in your region, amongst various other agencies in the hinterland.
So, It seems that you know more about glocks than he does. Maybe you should go to the Indy PD and tell them you can do better with their glocks than he can.
He is the one that told me that they are no longer Nitrocarburizing the barrel and slide. That is the "Tenifer" process. By not hardening these parts, the gun is guaranteed to wear at a dramatically faster rate. The Tenifer process is an expensive and VERY worthwhile process. It makes the slide and barrel almost indestructable. They simply wont wear out because the surface hardness is so great. The Tenifer process also imparts a finish to the metal that is MORE CORROSION RESISTANT THAN STAINLESS STEEL! You will NEVER see rust on a Tenifer treated slide or barrel. But no longer. Not on the Gen 4's. They've taken away the Tenifer process.
But you do get those extra plastic parts you mentioned I bet they cost SEVERAL CENTS to manufacture.
Better snap up an old Gen 3 while you can!
And to SW99 who is into name calling... Grow up and learn a few things.
Your Gen 4 might punch holes in paper and blast pop cans now and then, but put it to heavy use and you WILL see problems. Glock has already admitted problems with the new recoil spring assembly. Its just the start of you problems. This armorer is alreay seeing repairs from the new changes. He even thinks they changed the composition of the plastic to make the guns cheaper. Its not my opinion, but a man's opinion that works with these guns all day, everyday. Do you know more about these Glocks that him?
I didn't make fun of anyone, but I do stand by my comments.
If you think the changes I mentioned, and other small ones, in the GEN 4 were "several cents" of investment, then you clearly have zero idea of what engineering and manufacturing processes really cost. I worked for Ford for 16 years, and I have spent the last 6 years as a statistical process quality engineer at a major industry leading HVAC manufacturer. I have LOTS of experience seeing the battle between costs and quality.
As for Glock experience, I, too, am an armorer for our local Sheriff's office, that I work for as a Deputy (16 years now), just one county south of Indianapolis/Marion County. Why don't you PM me his name and I'll contact him directly, and I'll get to the bottom of his story and yours? I live outside INDY, and could easily meet with him. By any chance, you wouldn't be referring to Russ, would you?
BTW, the reason I get the 3 year re-certifications is because it is a "liability" issue. Because I do official armorer work for our Sheriff Office on our Glocks, I am REQUIRED to be certified by the factory. And since Glock requires re-certs every 3 years, that's when I go. That's Glocks policy and our SO policy. I follow our policy. Glock has made a lot of changes over the years; some of them small in unseen by the average guy. Armorers are made aware of these as they come along, and that is part of the reason they require re-certs every three years. We also learn how to diagnoise the failure modes seen in Glocks. In fact, most are attributed not to design or build quality, but rather to abuse and misapplication, poor and improper ammo, etc.
As far as the "Tenifer" process, I'll have to call Glock next week. Perhaps they have changed the proces in some small way, but there is NO WAY I believe they are not hardening the parts and just going to let them wear away as soft material. Perhaps, just maybe, they even found a "better" process? Change is change, but that doesn't necessarily make it a change for the worse. I just got my re-cert training in Feb of this year, and there was no mention of the lack of Tenifer or other processing.
I realize that you're just passing on what you heard from someone else. I find the comments of "cheap" and "save money" to be very misleading.
Yes, the Gen 4 is different in many ways. Perhaps one or more of those changes may not have panned out the way they wanted. They may to have to make more changes. But that does not make them "cheap" in a manner as to infer they are willing to sacrifice their credibility and risk lives for a penny here and there.
I welcome the opportunity to meet with your source and get the full scoop. PM me with his info. And I'll also call Glock and talk with the tech department when I get a chance during (or right after) the holidays.
dNewton,
The armorer I mentioned (that you tried to make fun of) is the premier Glock armorer in your hometown of Indianapolis Indiana. He is the armorer for the Indianapolis Police Department, the Secret Service and the FBI in your region, amongst various other agencies in the hinterland.
So, It seems that you know more about glocks than he does. Maybe you should go to the Indy PD and tell them you can do better with their glocks than he can.
He is the one that told me that they are no longer Nitrocarburizing the barrel and slide. That is the "Tenifer" process. By not hardening these parts, the gun is guaranteed to wear at a dramatically faster rate. The Tenifer process is an expensive and VERY worthwhile process. It makes the slide and barrel almost indestructable. They simply wont wear out because the surface hardness is so great. The Tenifer process also imparts a finish to the metal that is MORE CORROSION RESISTANT THAN STAINLESS STEEL! You will NEVER see rust on a Tenifer treated slide or barrel. But no longer. Not on the Gen 4's. They've taken away the Tenifer process.
But you do get those extra plastic parts you mentioned I bet they cost SEVERAL CENTS to manufacture.
Better snap up an old Gen 3 while you can!
And to SW99 who is into name calling... Grow up and learn a few things.
Your Gen 4 might punch holes in paper and blast pop cans now and then, but put it to heavy use and you WILL see problems. Glock has already admitted problems with the new recoil spring assembly. Its just the start of you problems. This armorer is alreay seeing repairs from the new changes. He even thinks they changed the composition of the plastic to make the guns cheaper. Its not my opinion, but a man's opinion that works with these guns all day, everyday. Do you know more about these Glocks that him?
I didn't make fun of anyone, but I do stand by my comments.
If you think the changes I mentioned, and other small ones, in the GEN 4 were "several cents" of investment, then you clearly have zero idea of what engineering and manufacturing processes really cost. I worked for Ford for 16 years, and I have spent the last 6 years as a statistical process quality engineer at a major industry leading HVAC manufacturer. I have LOTS of experience seeing the battle between costs and quality.
As for Glock experience, I, too, am an armorer for our local Sheriff's office, that I work for as a Deputy (16 years now), just one county south of Indianapolis/Marion County. Why don't you PM me his name and I'll contact him directly, and I'll get to the bottom of his story and yours? I live outside INDY, and could easily meet with him. By any chance, you wouldn't be referring to Russ, would you?
BTW, the reason I get the 3 year re-certifications is because it is a "liability" issue. Because I do official armorer work for our Sheriff Office on our Glocks, I am REQUIRED to be certified by the factory. And since Glock requires re-certs every 3 years, that's when I go. That's Glocks policy and our SO policy. I follow our policy. Glock has made a lot of changes over the years; some of them small in unseen by the average guy. Armorers are made aware of these as they come along, and that is part of the reason they require re-certs every three years. We also learn how to diagnoise the failure modes seen in Glocks. In fact, most are attributed not to design or build quality, but rather to abuse and misapplication, poor and improper ammo, etc.
As far as the "Tenifer" process, I'll have to call Glock next week. Perhaps they have changed the proces in some small way, but there is NO WAY I believe they are not hardening the parts and just going to let them wear away as soft material. Perhaps, just maybe, they even found a "better" process? Change is change, but that doesn't necessarily make it a change for the worse. I just got my re-cert training in Feb of this year, and there was no mention of the lack of Tenifer or other processing.
I realize that you're just passing on what you heard from someone else. I find the comments of "cheap" and "save money" to be very misleading.
Yes, the Gen 4 is different in many ways. Perhaps one or more of those changes may not have panned out the way they wanted. They may to have to make more changes. But that does not make them "cheap" in a manner as to infer they are willing to sacrifice their credibility and risk lives for a penny here and there.
I welcome the opportunity to meet with your source and get the full scoop. PM me with his info. And I'll also call Glock and talk with the tech department when I get a chance during (or right after) the holidays.
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