Getting ready for new generator....questions (of course!).

[Intheswamp]

Mobil 1 10w30 High Mileage is a slightly thicker 10w30 that should be shear stable …
My 5w40 is Delvac 1 that I got on sale … it’s normally a bit expensive …

I picked up two jugs of the 10W30 M1 HM tonight. I've got about 1/2 of a jug of M1 High Mileage that I can use for the break-in oil changes. I think the High Mileage will work well.

I got a little pressure off me today. I'd thought I had a doctor's appointment Friday when the freightline has the generator scheduled for delivery. I was going to call them and change the delivery. Then my wife informed me the appointment was Wednesday. Somebody's gotta have some brains around here 'cause it ain't me!

 

[Intheswamp]

Hopefully you are aware that larger manual transfer switches are available. I feed ten circuits with a 3500 watt generator. I run two refrigerators, a chest freezer and the dishwasher on heated dry cycle with under 2900 watts. You didn't mention if you were heating water, running a well pump or trying to run a bit of A/C..

Yes, I realize there are switches with more circuits. I'm just thinking that to get what we *need* that six circuits would work. Going with more circuits runs up the cost, naturally, and I'd rather keep the cost down. That is why going with an interlock is so appealing. You can designate whichever and ever how many circuits you with to power. For me, I see that I can get the six prioritized circuits going but there are other light-duty circuits of only baseplugs and lights that are basically used for lighting...with LED the cost wattage-wise is minimal so those would be some nice circuits to have included. With the interlock that would be no problem...tailor the circuits as you need them.

I know I could have went smaller in generator running whats. I really was looking for somthing in a 5000-5500 range but a lot in that size range with the feature I wanted are not in inventory. The one I ended up getting has a running wattage of 6250. The calculated load that I have will be less half than 6250 so it should just hum along. I'm hoping it will. No water-pumping or heating but might try a small 5000 btu A/C for a "cool room" if it's hot weather.

What type of fuel use do you get with your setup powering the loads you mentioned?

 

[meep]

Ive had a 6-port xfer switch and personally would rather have the interlock for full house options, even with a little 2k unit. thats on the list if we ever get the box redone here.

it takes a couple hundred hours i think before valve adjustment becomes a thing. 4 days per year with a 7k unit is only going to be 40 hours, unless you run in 24x7, in which case it is going to consume a lot of fuel and make a racket all day and night. The trade-off between size and fuel use is a bitter mistress. you will figure out a use pattern that works for your needs. I also think youll like the propane option. Running a gas generator all day long and all i smell is exhaust.

its funny - ever since i bought mine, we’ve had very few outages.

 

[TLAR640]

I'm just curious, what will you be powering with your generator? Are you in the north or south part of the state?

I'm buying it to run an airless paint sprayer, but then I'll have it to power essential circuits (frig, freezer, propane tankless water heater, microwave, etc) in the event of a power failure. I'm in the southeast part of the state.

 

[Ride_Red]

I installed the Reliance 6-circuit transfer switch. It works great for me in my application.

Circuits
1 - Furnace
2 - Fridge
3 - Sump pump / Chest freezer
4 - Family room lights, TV, Internet
5 - Kitchen outlets
6 - Bathroom lights and outlets


I usually use my Honda EU2000i generator and everything runs great. Gut start the generator, plug it into the house, then switch things over one at a time to let the motors start (if needed). Generator runs on idle most the time. Furnace and fridge are new and super efficient, and draws hardly anything (amazing). Sump pump is the largest draw when it starts.

 

[thastinger]

One thing you'll need to do when depending on a genny for long term events is carefully monitor the valve lash adjustments.

The manual should tell you when to check, and if you've been running under load - do it. Especially early on.

You'll find the exhaust valve will pound up in the seat fairly quickly and first then slow down.

The expensive Yamaha and hondas typically have long inspection times, some of the cheap stuff - 50 hours.

Especially when running on propane or NG.
Although the manufacturer of this genset may do something with the valves/seats as it is designed to be dual fuel.

 

[thastinger]

It will be interesting to see what the propane company says about needing (or not needing a higher pressure. It would be great to simply install a tee and set up a connection for the generator. I'll keep my fingers crossed on that one.

If I change my mind about a circuit I can rewire to the one I want to use. I've looked over my circuits and have six that will pretty much take care of us. I'm sure there'll be something that comes up, but this is in a semi-survival situation where priorities will need to be made. We have two side-by-side refrigerators whose circuits are on opposite buses. Then I'll be tweaking for the lights, fans, etc.,. Now if I throw a 5k btu a/c in there that might cause a bit of an issue. But we will be running the generator probably 4-5 hours and then off for 4-5 hours. The big thing is keeping the food frozen...and keeping somewhat cool if in the summer. Wintertime we have some propane heaters to run rather than the central unit. Thanks for the feedback, I need all I can get.

Speaking of flipping the breakers, I'm glad you mentioned them lasting a long time. We had an old cotton warehouse we used in our tire business. It had lights strung all over it. We used to use the breakers for light switches several times a day, 5-6 days a week, and all year long. And you're right, those breakers lasted at least from around 1975 until at least 2010. I might revisit the idea of an interlock. I'm glad you mentioned the duty cycle of the breakers. My most recent experience was with my best friend's house. He flipped the main on it to do some wiring and the main "locked" in the sense that you couldn't turn it back on...the lever would wiggle but something had it where you couldn't turn it back on. He had to get an electrician to come out and install a new main breaker. But, you're right, in most instances breakers last for years being turned off and on. And once you turned them all off at the beginning of generator use only the ones you use will be turned on and off through the power outage or whatever.

All of the dual fuel gensets I have seen have the low pressure regulator built in to the propane hook up on the genset. The website should have a pdf version of the manual and that should say whether you will need a sep low pressure reg.

IMHO, you would be better off installing a lock-out switch in your main house panel, and feed the input breaker to the lock-out switch from an outdoor NEMA30 twist lock in a weather proof enclosure. This way, the gen will feed you whole house and you manage the loads yourself. You don't have to flip any breakers, just turn the stuff off inside the house, which would be your HVAC unit(s) with a 6K. A
6K should easily run your fridge, freezer and every light/ceiling fan and TV in the house.
Obviously, any appliance with a resistive electrical heating element is going to be a big load (coffee pots and simple toasters are 1200-1500 watts each), but you can manage those yourself.

 

[Intheswamp]

Ive had a 6-port xfer switch and personally would rather have the interlock for full house options, even with a little 2k unit. thats on the list if we ever get the box redone here.

it takes a couple hundred hours i think before valve adjustment becomes a thing. 4 days per year with a 7k unit is only going to be 40 hours, unless you run in 24x7, in which case it is going to consume a lot of fuel and make a racket all day and night. The trade-off between size and fuel use is a bitter mistress. you will figure out a use pattern that works for your needs. I also think youll like the propane option. Running a gas generator all day long and all i smell is exhaust.

its funny - ever since i bought mine, we’ve had very few outages.

I've gone back and forth trying to decide between an interlock and a 6-circuit transfer switch. Yesterday I went to our local Lowes...about 30 miles away. I had pre-ordered the 6-circuit Reliance kit but was having cold feet about it. I intended to take it out of the "locker" and walk 30' and return it. But then I saw I had a 90-day return window on it. Hmmm, so I went and picked up a generator inlet box and a 2-pole 30amp breaker. When I decide which route I'm going to go I have the equipment on hand to install...then a trip back to Lowes for the return merchandise. Yeah, I'm struggling here.

Our usual routine to run a (borrowed) generator is to run it roughly four hours a couple of times a day to keep the freezers froze. Seems to work fairly well. But, we haven't had to do that during scorching weather so it might be have to run for longer periods or add another run in the schedule. I'm figuring a tank a day of gasoline, not sure about the propane...small bottles would be only for emergency, emergency backup and the big tank for the long haul...if that makes sense. The Champion 7850/6250 is stated at running 10 hours on a full 6-gallon gas tank and 6.5 hours on a 20# propane bottle...at 1/2 load.

Yes, in trying to calculate my wattage needs I was looking at generators running in the 4kw range...the fuel "mileage" looked good. But, when I looked at running the generator at the recommended 1/2-load duty I kept upping the wattage...all the time looking at the fuel use "guesstimates". With gasoline I'm looking at ~6250 running watts, with propane that drops to 5.6kw.

So many things I'm pondering it gets a bit confusing at times.

ETA: I've heard many people mention that getting a generator is good insurance against power outages, just as you commented!

 

[Intheswamp]

I'm buying it to run an airless paint sprayer, but then I'll have it to power essential circuits (frig, freezer, propane tankless water heater, microwave, etc) in the event of a power failure. I'm in the southeast part of the state.

I understand. You are in an area that gets hurricane outages, too. Throw in some tornadoes and thunderstorms and a substation transformer blowing and, well, there goes the lights.

 

[Intheswamp]

Especially when running on propane or NG.
Although the manufacturer of this genset may do something with the valves/seats as it is designed to be dual fuel.

Champion says to do a valve inspection at 250 hours.

 

[Intheswamp]

All of the dual fuel gensets I have seen have the low pressure regulator built in to the propane hook up on the genset. The website should have a pdf version of the manual and that should say whether you will need a sep low pressure reg.

IMHO, you would be better off installing a lock-out switch in your main house panel, and feed the input breaker to the lock-out switch from an outdoor NEMA30 twist lock in a weather proof enclosure. This way, the gen will feed you whole house and you manage the loads yourself. You don't have to flip any breakers, just turn the stuff off inside the house, which would be your HVAC unit(s) with a 6K. A
6K should easily run your fridge, freezer and every light/ceiling fan and TV in the house.
Obviously, any appliance with a resistive electrical heating element is going to be a big load (coffee pots and simple toasters are 1200-1500 watts each), but you can manage those yourself.

What I'm concerned about is that the generatort itself may require a higher pressure. I know there's one Youtube that I looked at where a got had installed a Duro-Max dual-fuel. It would crank but then would die...seems there wasn't enough volume(?) of propane getting to the carburetor to keep the generator running. There was some connection between the size of propane line they had to work with and the regulator pressure. They ended up going to a higher pressure regulator and it solved the problem. It would be kind of problematical to test and see if the pressure is sufficient...I *might* could tap into the hotwater heater propane line inside the garage and give it a test run via that connection.

I'm *really* leaning towards the interlock/lock-out switch. Just seems more logical to have the options that that would present. I've got some base-plug circuits that might only have a light or two on them...and with LEDs that's hardly any load at all. With an interlock I could include that low-powered circuit with no problem. The heaviest loads are the refrigerators and then optionally a coffee-maker, stove-eye, small 5k btu air-conditioner...and all of those can be controlled via their own switches. As I think it all over the interlock is moving to the forefront...cheaper, more simple to install, more flexible, and from what I can tell just as safe as the transfer switch.

Our problem with running the main TV is that it is an older plasma, a 50" Panasonic Pro-panel....runs about 600 watts. Throw in the audio receiver and we're busting close to a kilowatt. So's....we'll be using the little 24" LED in the kitchen! The geothermal system is out, of course. We could probably manage the washer...probably not the dryer, though...but I don't think we'll be washing a lot of clothes during an outage...maybe. Always can hang a clothesline if needed! Yeah, resistive loads are a heavy draw and will be wary of them.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[thastinger]

What I'm concerned about is that the generatort itself may require a higher pressure. I know there's one Youtube that I looked at where a got had installed a Duro-Max dual-fuel. It would crank but then would die...seems there wasn't enough volume(?) of propane getting to the carburetor to keep the generator running. There was some connection between the size of propane line they had to work with and the regulator pressure. They ended up going to a higher pressure regulator and it solved the problem. It would be kind of problematical to test and see if the pressure is sufficient...I *might* could tap into the hotwater heater propane line inside the garage and give it a test run via that connection.

I'm *really* leaning towards the interlock/lock-out switch. Just seems more logical to have the options that that would present. I've got some base-plug circuits that might only have a light or two on them...and with LEDs that's hardly any load at all. With an interlock I could include that low-powered circuit with no problem. The heaviest loads are the refrigerators and then optionally a coffee-maker, stove-eye, small 5k btu air-conditioner...and all of those can be controlled via their own switches. As I think it all over the interlock is moving to the forefront...cheaper, more simple to install, more flexible, and from what I can tell just as safe as the transfer switch.

Our problem with running the main TV is that it is an older plasma, a 50" Panasonic Pro-panel....runs about 600 watts. Throw in the audio receiver and we're busting close to a kilowatt. So's....we'll be using the little 24" LED in the kitchen! The geothermal system is out, of course. We could probably manage the washer...probably not the dryer, though...but I don't think we'll be washing a lot of clothes during an outage...maybe. Always can hang a clothesline if needed! Yeah, resistive loads are a heavy draw and will be wary of them.

Thanks for the feedback!

You would be surprised what a true 6500W will run. It'll run that dryer fine, so long as you don't have the coffee pot or microwave going at the same time. The dryer will probably start a bit slow, you'll hear the gen pull down then catch back up.

In theory, a 55Gal propane hot water heater, and that 6K gen on max load, would have about the same consumption, ballpark anyways.

A 500 gallon tank should be fine. You don't have to worry about temps (matters in propane tank sizing for big loads) like people in Canada would. They might need 2 1000 gal tanks to meet the same demand.

I have a lock-out in my main panel and I have a twist lock plug that feeds that breaker. I like it because if the Wife needed to use it when I wasn't home, there is no way to screw that up. She couldn't back-feed the electrical lines because the lock out prevents it...by design.

 

[meep]

I've gone back and forth trying to decide between an interlock and a 6-circuit transfer switch. Yesterday I went to our local Lowes...about 30 miles away. I had pre-ordered the 6-circuit Reliance kit but was having cold feet about it. I intended to take it out of the "locker" and walk 30' and return it. But then I saw I had a 90-day return window on it. Hmmm, so I went and picked up a generator inlet box and a 2-pole 30amp breaker. When I decide which route I'm going to go I have the equipment on hand to install...then a trip back to Lowes for the return merchandise. Yeah, I'm struggling here.

Our usual routine to run a (borrowed) generator is to run it roughly four hours a couple of times a day to keep the freezers froze. Seems to work fairly well. But, we haven't had to do that during scorching weather so it might be have to run for longer periods or add another run in the schedule. I'm figuring a tank a day of gasoline, not sure about the propane...small bottles would be only for emergency, emergency backup and the big tank for the long haul...if that makes sense. The Champion 7850/6250 is stated at running 10 hours on a full 6-gallon gas tank and 6.5 hours on a 20# propane bottle...at 1/2 load.

Yes, in trying to calculate my wattage needs I was looking at generators running in the 4kw range...the fuel "mileage" looked good. But, when I looked at running the generator at the recommended 1/2-load duty I kept upping the wattage...all the time looking at the fuel use "guesstimates". With gasoline I'm looking at ~6250 running watts, with propane that drops to 5.6kw.

So many things I'm pondering it gets a bit confusing at times.

ETA: I've heard many people mention that getting a generator is good insurance against power outages, just as you commented!

So... fridges cycle as they need. we lost power here for a week and i had the little honda inverter. We ran my fridge and 2 of the neighbors, and then fans and a couple of lamps here, and did surge duty with the microwave. With the small inverter genset, i found that it needed 3 gallons per day regardless of whether i cycled it or just let it run the whole time, based on how the 3 fridges used power. After figuring that out, i just let it run except to refuel. its a 2k unit. We later bought a 3k unit for the camper, but tbh for outages i prefer the 2k due to fuel use. the 3k is also an inverter unit but just due to its larger size, consumes 50% more.

i think you are talking about big fuel tankage, so youre good to go.

the nice thing about xfer switches is the install is very straight forward. If youve got it and you like it, and you're comfortable in the breaker panel, i wouldn't return it just based on xfer vs lockout ideology.

m

 

[Ride_Red]

The nice thing about my setup with the 6-circuit panel is that it is super easy to install and use. Only the six circuits you choose are powered by the generator. I can use the little 2000 watt inverter (1600watt continuous) to power all the essentials. Some of the breakers power a few plugs elsewhere around the house, so we have a bedroom lamp, garage door opener and lights, etc. It prevents someone powering up the microwave and the coffee pot at the same time, to it promotes awareness to conserve energy. I switched all my lights to LED and that saves a lot of power consumption, too.

With a 6500 watt generator, I don't think you need to worry too much about being miserly about power. That generator will run almost everything in your house at the same time and you can run one or two major appliances also. So, a simple lockout into the main panel may be the easiest way to go for you.

 

[Intheswamp]

Of course, now I'm feeling buyer's remorse...wondering whether I bought too much generator. I worked a little spread sheet up, taking info from "here and there". Initially I was looking at a ~4000watt generator because my added up wattage would fit within that size...AND the fuel usage and noise levels were good. But, then it was brought to my attention that you want a generator running at 1/2 load to help with fuel efficiency and wear-and-tear on the generator (or so I came to believe). So, I regrouped and upped the wattage to account for the "1/2 load" aspect. Now, I'm hearing many of you saying you run all kinds of things on a 2200watt generator and use minimal fuel. I know I'll be covered in regards to most wattage needs but the generator is stated as running only 9-10 hours on 6 gallons of fuel at the 1/2 load mark. Will dropping down to 1/4 load (which apparently will probably be the more realistic wattage usage) increase the run-time per gallon to any appreciable degree? I think I've overthought this project, but I tend to be a bit OCD about things and it comes back to bite me sometimes.

Interlock vs. manual transfer switch: At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with an interlock setup. It makes sense using an interlock in that I can include some of those very low-wattage circuits that I mentioned earlier. And, it appears that I may be able to run more circuits and equipment than I originally thought I could with the generator that I have coming.

Thanks for all the feedback. Lots of information to soak up!

 

[jonnied1]

Break it in on regular dino oil, then switch to synthetic. Change the oil about every two hours up until 10 hours. I just dumped the coffee cans out today from breaking my new Champion generator in. I was amazed at all the crud that had settled to the bottom of the cans after setting several weeks.

 

[samven]

I know how you feel with regard to fuel usage but I think you made the right decision. Getting away with a small genset for short outages is fine but you also have to remember that running any generator near its max will mean shorter life and dirtier power. Inverter generators have cleaned up the power allot but they are very sensitive to overload and anything that might backfeed noise and phase imbalance. The high end units from Honda and Yamaha are better but I have never seen a dead inverter generator that had a bad motor, its always the inverter board that blows out. For longer outages you are going to be thankful that you have more power, just the fact that you dont have to run around turning things off because the freezer needs to kick in or the window AC is running. Remember if you need 15 amps at 120v like a small AC kicking on thats 1800W on 1 phase. If you had a 4kw genset that would be the only thing that could be on that side, same with a microwave or coffee pot. For a day OK you live with it but if you have to live with that for several days or a week you would be out looking for a larger genset the next week.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Of course, now I'm feeling buyer's remorse...wondering whether I bought too much generator. I worked a little spread sheet up, taking info from "here and there". Initially I was looking at a ~4000watt generator because my added up wattage would fit within that size...AND the fuel usage and noise levels were good.

For what it is worth, I run two refrigerators, a chest freezer, the network infrastructure and one PC, the dishwasher in heated dry mode, the ignitors on the gas range (always on when oven is on,) the ignitor and blower on the gas hot water heater and some other odds and ends on 4000 watt unit and also ran a cord over to my neighbor's place for his refrigerator in addition to my two. More recently I purchased a Predator 3000/3500 watt inverter generator which is far quieter. The Champion easily did 3 hours per gallon at 50% load.

My experience with the Predator is less extensive, but I do believe it to be a little more fuel efficient. I run the Predator in the "Eco" mode that allows the engine to throttle up and down based upon load. It throttles up when the dishwasher heating element kicks in, but it doesn't stall.

Both of these generators started out with Mobil1 10w-30 High Mileage for the 3.5 HTHS viscosity. A little over a year ago they were switched to Rotella T6 5w-40. I can't say that I've noticed any difference. There's been nothing but exercise runs since that change; I like to exercise them under load for at least three hours every few months just be sure that they are ready when needed. I should also point out that I use only E0 fuel. You should be in even better shape with Propane, as it never goes bad.

 

[SOHCman]

Rule number 1: no such thing as too much generator.

I would recommend a easy break-in with your oil of choice. Get the engine running good and warm and then start plugging in space heaters to add load. the oil filled heaters with three settings work great to vary the load every now and then.

First couple hours I change oil and repeat every couple hours until the oil stops coming out with break-in glitter. I also only run ethanol free fuel and store the tank full with stabil mixed as an extra measure. Cheers!

 

[Intheswamp]

Break it in on regular dino oil, then switch to synthetic. Change the oil about every two hours up until 10 hours. I just dumped the coffee cans out today from breaking my new Champion generator in. I was amazed at all the crud that had settled to the bottom of the cans after setting several weeks.

I've heard both dino and "whatever you're going to use" recommended for breaking in small engines. The only one I've ever broken in was a big Thoroughbred (pre-Predator HF engine) on a rear-tine Husky tiller. I broke that one in running Mobil 1 synthetic. Seems I ran at 1/2 throttle for a half hour and changed the oil, then another half hour at 3/4 throttle, and finally another half hour at 3/4 throttle for 30 more minutes with a final 10 minutes or so at full throttle...then changed the oil one more time and started tearing up dirt. It amazed me at all the glitter that came out of that engine!!!! But, it was/is a strong motor and worked great...until the transmission went out on it two years later. I think the Thoroughbred *might * have been a couple of HP more than OE.

If I go with the dino oil would the cheap Walmart oil be good enough?