geo metro 1.0, 4868mile 5w40 synpower

[dwilly99]

my very first uoa Valvoline synpower 5w40, mostly all Hwy driving 4qt sump added 3qts makeup oil

From blackstone
Universal averages show how metals should look from the Suzuki 1.0L after about 4,300 miles on the
oil. You ran a fairly comparative number of miles on this sample, though your engine's wear numbers are a
bit elevated. Aluminum may show piston wear, while copper and lead probably show bearing wear. We're
not sure after just one sample how problematic metals may or may not be, so for the time being continued
monitoring is all we suggest. Fuel dilution measured a trace, which is no problem at all. The TBN was fine at
3.1, but use just 3,000 miles to monitor.


ALUMINUM 8
CHROMIUM 2
IRON 18
COPPER 44
LEAD 44
TIN 1
MOLYBDENUM 25
NICKEL 1
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 1
POTASSIUM 9
BORON 11
SILICON 8
SODIUM 20
CALCIUM 2323
MAGNESIUM 13
PHOSPHORUS 832
ZINC 965
BARIUM 0

cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 71.7
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 13.39
Flashpoint in °F 375
Fuel % TR
Antifreeze % 0.0
Water % 0.0
Insolubles % .3
TBN 3.1

 

[dave1251]

What a 75% make up oil on a 4.9K OCI on a brand name synthetic 5W-40? is this correct? If this is correct I would put the engine out to pasture or fix it.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
What a 75% make up oil on a 4.9K OCI on a brand name synthetic 5W-40? is this correct? If this is correct I would put the engine out to pasture or fix it.


I disagreed. I would not change oil at all and just keep adding the cheapest oil I can find in any viscosity. I've been down this road before with a 72 Vega, 83 Chevette, and 86 Chevette. All three cars went over 100K miles each with no oil change and only top off. I used the cheapest oil that I can find anywhere and most came from garage sales.

 

[Artem]

Yea but what was the condition of those engines after said maintenance interval... errr, lack of i mean. I'm sure they weren't happy motors.

In the OPs case, he replaced 75% of the total oil in the block and the TBN is only 3.1. I honestly expected better after only 5k miles.

If the OP plans to run the car until she quits, I agree that 10-15k might be easily do-able with an oil filter change in there somewhere. The block is shedding quite a bit of metal, so the oil is abrasive. It needs to be changed sooner or later.

 

[azsynthetic]

Most of those cars were not meant to go over 100K. Mine either crashed or the tranny went before the engine.

 

[fdcg27]

That seems like a lot of metal from this little engine.
TBN of 3.1 with three qts added in 5K seems pretty low.
Where is all of the copper and lead coming from?
Bearings?
I think that, taken as a whole, this UOA may show you that's it's time to start looking for another Metro.
If this one is exceptionally nice, except for the engine, a good used engine might be an option.
Rebuilding this one would probably not be cost effective, and it may not even be possible to do a satisfactory rebuild.
Metros are becoming kind of hard to find, since most owners treated them as disposable appliances.
Still, there is virtually nothing more economical in this market than a three cylinder Metro.

 

[dwilly99]

i have mobil 5000 in it now with just over 3000 miles on it should i change it and and test it now or wait till 5k? i did change the pcv valve at the last oil change so oil useage seemed to go down alittle

 

[dnewton3]

To be sure, one UOA is not a real history by any means, and there could be errors, or there could be a big blip in the wear due to a slug of dirt, etc. But, there is too much here to write off as anything but concerning ...

I don't know that one could blame the oil here; the engine seems to be in trouble. The bearings are likely going out somewhere (cam, mains, rods?). Without the Universal Averages to compare/contrast, it's a bit hard to know, but this certainly isn't good.

75% sump exchange after 4.8k "mostly highway" miles and TBN is at 3.1? Yikes!

You have two choices:
1) yank the motor and find the problems now and fix them
2) drive it like you stole it, until it pukes, and then abandon it

I would ditch the expensive syns; clearly not averting wear and certainly paying a preium price. I would suggest any 15w-40 hdeo that you can find on sale (Delvac has a great rebate right now ...). 15w-40 for summer and perhaps 10w-30 for winter. I would UOA/OCI right at 4.3k miles; stick as close to the average so that numbers are directly comparable.

Does this engine have any known design flaws such as poor oil control rings, poor cam bearing oil supply, etc?

 

[Quattro Pete]

How many total miles on this engine?

 

[dwilly99]

the averages were
aluminum 3
copper 9
lead 3
every thing else was close to the same.
and for the miles not really sure it says 45k could be 145k or 245k

 

[DNVDMAX]

99,

Does the Metro have a tach? If so how many revs is it doing at hwy speed?

My Paseo doesn't use oil during a normal OCI where it keeps revs a 3200 and below on the hwy. Recently I took a 600 mile trip, doing about 3900 to 4100 rpm most of the way, from Georgia to Virgina and noticed it used about 1/3 QT so I suspect high rpm on little engines equals elevated oil use. I don't know where the oil is going. This may be a characteristic of tiny mills that are working at 60% to 75% capacity at hwy speeds.

Thanks for posting this UOA, very rare.

 

[DNVDMAX]

99,

I downloaded a 2012 Nissan Versa 1.6L owner's manual for reference on oil consumption. Technically in the Versa's case it can use up to 2.5L in 3000 miles and ~3.5L in 4200 miles. I know the engines aren't exactlty the same but you could use this as a gauging metric.

I think your 3 qts of MUO in 4300 miles, may not be the norm, but is within this tolerance.

Below is an excerpt from the manual:


"It is normal to add some engine oil between
oil maintenance intervals depending
on the severity of operating conditions or
depending on the property of the engine oil
used. More engine oil is consumed by frequent
acceleration/deceleration especially
when the engine rpm is high. Consumption
is likely to be higher when the engine is
new. If the rate of oil consumption, after
driving for 3,000 miles (5,000 km), is more
than 0.5 liter per 600 miles (1,000 km), consult
a NISSAN dealer"

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: dave1251
What a 75% make up oil on a 4.9K OCI on a brand name synthetic 5W-40? is this correct? If this is correct I would put the engine out to pasture or fix it.


I disagreed. I would not change oil at all and just keep adding the cheapest oil I can find in any viscosity. I've been down this road before with a 72 Vega, 83 Chevette, and 86 Chevette. All three cars went over 100K miles each with no oil change and only top off. I used the cheapest oil that I can find anywhere and most came from garage sales.


We can disagree. But to the OP why are you doing a UOA? I would save the $$$ on the UOA and try to cure this consumption issue. Do you have any idea what is causing this consumption?

 

[dwilly99]

no i dont have a tach, hard to find one for a 3cyl but i do have bigger tires on it so the rpms are lower at hwy speed. ive read alot of metros burn oil at higher rpms but im always going below 65mph. Not really sure ware the oils going, no leaks, never noticed blueish smoke but im losing coolant also. think im just gonna drive it till it dies.

 

[dave1251]

Cool thanks for the UOA I would not bother with another just put whatever 15W-40 HDEO you can find on sale keep it topped off and drive. If you could fine some old GM coolant tabs I would try to use those to see if you could save some coolant. Make sure to keep your coolant reservoir topped off too.

 

[mjk]

If it was me, I'd switch to a hi-mileage oil like a Mobil Super5k HM, or Defy. Keep it topped off, and NOT worry about it. You are driving a Metro, and saving a ton of money in doing so. Over thinking it isn't worth it. Just stay vigilant with normal maintenance. Drive it till it dies, then use the money you are saving on another gas sipper.....

 

[dwilly99]

I got some Defy on the self ill use next. i think ill do one more uoa just to double check, and i always keep my eye open for another metro

O and 53mpg is the best ive got with it, if anyone was wondering

 

[Norm Olt]

45K vs. 145K vs. 245K...

Most likely neither the former nor the latter.

I would agree with most of the advice (don't have to "run it as if you stole it" if you want it to last: well-treated you just might hit 245K!) but doubt you really need to use a 5W-40 $ynthetic if you are adding 3 quarts per 5K OCI.

How's about using whatever 15W-40 HDEO is on sale? Or all the MaxLife NexGen 10W-40 you can get via the AutoZone promotions?

Cheers!

p.s. That's a Suzuki engine, isn't it? They are known to be pretty tough in motorcycles.