Generators are oil consumers

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Quest
LOL! We run from 5500W Honda gensets to some old Coleman (B&S single cylinder 7kW gensets) in our office for certain parts of the power backup during outage, never have I seen/heard such bazarre call that B&S is expected to burn oil in such an excessive rate.

You got an issue with the motor itself I must say, even with all the B&S motors (lawnmowers, tillers, etc.) I've serviced/own/operate so far, I've never heard of such outrageous oil consumption rates.

Q.



Lawn mowers and tillers run for what a few hours at a time? Most of the time they aren't even under a hard load. My John Deere riding mower with twin cylinder kohler barely has a load on it when cutting grass. Generators run for days at a time under heavy engine load. The cure for the oil consumption is a HDEO like Rotella T 15w40. The engine might still consume a bit of oil but MUCH less than the Mobil 1 5w30.

That doesn't surprise me that Generic teaches the techs to use mobil 1. Since it will be consumed at a higher rate, that means more service calls for the company.


I wouldn't use a 15-40 oil in a generator in extreme cold as it may be very hard to start(Molasses is much harder on these very expensive starters)). As for more service calls, not so. My tech friend does annual PMs(preventive maint) which has nothing to do with oil useage(the customer takes care of that if needed). Now some customers want him to come more often(money is no object) just to check the oil. Besides Generic gets nothing from PMs or the oil the tech uses, only the tech does, unless their are parts to be replaced. Sorry.

 

[Bror Jace]

"That doesn't surprise me that Generic teaches the techs to use Mobil 1. Since it will be consumed at a higher rate, that means more service calls for the company."

Agreed. I think regular Mobil 1 is a poor choice for OPE because of the tendency for consumption. If I had to use a Mobil 1 product, I'd use their EP or High Mileage formula.

OPE and "High Mileage" oils are better choices for OPE ... conventional or synthetic. I agree that I'd skip the 15w40 HDEOs for winter duty. Just too thick, even at typical operating temps.

Also, if you have to leave an engine unattended for hours at a time (and entire tankful) I would run a top-oil in the gas: MMO, Lucas UCL or even 2-stroke at a mix of 200:1 or 250:1. Not sure why, but this tends to dramatically reduce oil consumption in the few engines I have had that consumed oil. I think it helps the rings seal more effectively.

 

[tig1]

Bro Jace, "Tendency fo consumption" How so? I've never seen any evidence of that, and the engine builders and engineers that design the engines disagree with you in regard to the 15w40 oil.

 

[Boss302fan]

I would use Rotella 5W40 syn and call it a day. Great oil for this application and it would be fine in your temps...

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
I would use Rotella 5W40 syn and call it a day. Great oil for this application and it would be fine in your temps...


Ah, here is a greater viscosity span, and a synthetic.

OK, another oil for thought gentlemen: One interesting thing I have learned about a property of a base IV oil, a con you could say, would be the fact that it doesn't stick to metal to create a "film." It has to do with the inherent chemistry of a PAO, as it is a repellent, and sitting for a time in an unused state, makes everything dry from a drain back. The maker of PAO oils add something to anti-polarize it better, to adhere here, but overtime it drains completely back, thus causing a dry start.

Base III synthetics do not have this problem. But in a car, a base IV is no big deal because it doesn't sit a month between starts.

Thought I'd share.

 

[Clevy]

Well our honda generators and 5.5 hp motors don't burn any oil. They do suffer from fuel diluted oil and needs a fluid change every 100 hours(2 weeks on my crew).
If you have a Honda burning oil there is a problem somewhere.

 

[Bror Jace]

"Bror Jace, 'Tendency for consumption' How so? I've never seen any evidence of that, and the engine builders and engineers that design the engines disagree with you in regard to the 15w40 wt oil."

In my experience, engines (of all kinds) that consume oil will absolutely guzzle regular Mobil 1. From lawn mowers to S2000 owners, it is a remarkably consistent phenomenon.

I'm not sure what you are asking about re: 15w40. You know engine builders and engineers that recommend this stuff for winter duty?? (below freezing temps)

 

[boraticus]

I have to agree with Bror Jace regarding oil consuming engines eating up Mobil 1 5W30. I've got a B&S Kool Bore 305cc engine on my Simplicity snow blower. I'll tell you that it sucks up Mobil 1 5W30 much faster than conventional 5W30 high mileage oil.

Don't understand why. The engine was broken in with conventional oil as per operating manual, Mobil 1 used right after the initial 5 hour oil change and subsequent oil changes were at less than 20 hours on synthetic oil.

Wost engine I've ever owned for oil consumption. I ran two Tecumseh Snow King 10 h.p.engines for ten years each and neither one used a drop of oil in a season.

 

[Quest]

manufacturing defect, that's all.

Q.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Quest
manufacturing defect, that's all.

Q.


Quite possibly.

Other than the oil consumption, it's an excellent engine. Much more powerful than the old 10 h.p. Tecumseh engines. Smoother and easier on fuel as well.

Considering the good points, I can live with a bit of oil consumption. Since switching to a conventional 5W30 high mileage oil, it's not using as much. Nonetheless, I check it before every use which is not very often. I have a few single stage snow blowers that see all the work except the heaviest of snow storms.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Quest
manufacturing defect, that's all.

Q.


Of course it is. My Generic tech friend services scads on generators and has never seen this strange thing. I,ve never seen it in small engines of any kind.

 

[JimPghPA]

I saw a new Cub-Kadet lawn mower that drank oil back in 1991. The rings were left off of the piston when it was made. It was fixed under waranty.

 

[Quest]

Case to the point: I've encountered 1 single instance of Tacumseh engine (partial rebuild required due to excessive oil consumption) in my life so far where the cylinder wasn't properly honed for proper oil retention property. As a a result: it needs an electric drill, a honing brush and a couple of quick whizzes and that was it. I even resused the original compression rings. No oil consumptions after putting them back together and ran it for 5 hrs (with moderate load--wet grass on a mower).

Who sez a factory cannot make mistake(QC must be asleep)?

Q.

My luck with B&S seems to be better so far, but I guess at the end of the day it's all about luck of a draw..

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
I saw a new Cub-Kadet lawn mower that drank oil back in 1991. The rings were left off of the piston when it was made. It was fixed under waranty.


Holy cow, Holey Cadet.

It's a miracle there was enough compression for a start.


These were probably the oil control rings?

 

[JimPghPA]

It was a new riding mower at a electric power utility company. They had a shop in the company that had one of their duties being looking after small engines the company used. They checked it after a few weeks use, and it was just about out of oil. They had gone over it when it arrived new, and knew it had a full crank case before initial use. They knew the oil use was way too high and sent it back, and were then told about the missing rings, so I do not know what rings were missing.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Case to the point: I've encountered 1 single instance of Tacumseh engine (partial rebuild required due to excessive oil consumption) in my life so far where the cylinder wasn't properly honed for proper oil retention property. As a a result: it needs an electric drill, a honing brush and a couple of quick whizzes and that was it. I even resused the original compression rings. No oil consumptions after putting them back together and ran it for 5 hrs (with moderate load--wet grass on a mower).

Who sez a factory cannot make mistake(QC must be asleep)?

Q.

My luck with B&S seems to be better so far, but I guess at the end of the day it's all about luck of a draw..





If I recall, the cross-hatching that the honing stone makes is temporary. It allows the rings to seat or embed, but is eventually worn away.

I had the same trouble with a brand new small block. It spec'd out, and I used the best rings and hypereutectic pistons, but it used oil from day one. I thought it would eventually "embed" but it never happened.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: INTJ


If I recall, the cross-hatching that the honing stone makes is temporary. It allows the rings to seat or embed, but is eventually worn away.



Plse do some in-depth research on the subject of crosshatching and the angles, etc. and the rationale behind the hatch angles....and you'll understand why this is so important to the success of properly breaking in the compression rings, and yet still be able to provide sufficient lubrication to the rings and effective sealing between the cylinder wall and the piston rings...

Q.