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Gave up on Windows for LinuxMint
- Thread starter Brons2
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I had the same issue. My 3 year old desktop started having major issues after a Windows update. I usually start fresh every 2-3 years by reformatting the drive and performing a full Windows reinstallation. However, I'm tired of doing that, so I decided to try Linux Zorin. I love it for all the reasons you mentioned. It does't have all the bells and whistles like Windows, but it runs so fast and smooth.
I only need Windows for a few applications, so I still have a Windows laptop for those situations. Otherwise, I am currently using Linux 80% of the time...and loving every minute of it.
Why would a guy want to wait on updates? For a simpleton like me I usually always allow updates, especially on Windoze machines or Android stuff because of potential security updates/patches. Is this erroneous thinking? I also run Linux (actually all my computers are Linux - only 1 machine with 11 and that's only because work software requires it) Clearly I don't have the nuts and bolts depth of knowledge that you guys have so I'd like to learn the thinking.
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I never delay on updates (which are bug fixes, security patches, etc.).
But I definitely delay on version upgrades. In my experience (and that of many, many others), OS providers often show unbelievable levels of either incompetence or laziness in the level of show-stopping problems they allow in initial releases of major upgrades.
No way I'm taking an upgrade until it's been out for a reasonably long period of time, and the bugs are fully resolved.
So, regular updates to Win10 or Ubuntu 24.04 LTS? Yes, immediately.
Immediate upgrade to Win11 or Ubuntu 25? No way.
Ahhhhh I see... Duh! Evidently I'm easily confused too
Those of use who make our living either in server or desktop space under no circumstances want things to change. I need my systems to behave exactly today as they did yesterday and exactly tomorrow as they did today. An exception to this is that most capable Linux distros will allow for immediate security updates; that is a different matter and security updates rarely, if ever, affect behaviour.
OVERKILL
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Yes, and in Microsoft land, sometimes those updates break things badly, lol. I had a server where none of the VM's would start after a Windows update, had to roll it back. That was exciting. Microsoft later retracted the update and then re-released it because it was a "whoopsie", but the crazy part is, how did they not catch this before release?
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I don't know if you ever watch Dave's Garage on YT (Dave Plummer, former MS engineer), but he has given some breakdowns of release issues (e.g., CrowdStrike and the AWS debacle a couple of weeks ago).
His takes are always interesting and generally tell a story of a multiplicity of failure vectors in release blunders, some very understandable, and some based on humans being dumb.
BTW, in a recent video, he says Windows has some real problems (and he lists what he would do to fix them), but overall, Windows is a reasonably solid system (server duty included, if I remember correctly).
Doubt that take is due to any loyalty to MS as he said that since he left MS in 2003, he "can't take credit for any MS achievements, nor blame for any failures." But he does claim to still have a pretty good understanding of both the product and the culture that creates it.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I follow Dave on twitter (now "X") actually, lol. I posted a picture of his home genset recently on here, lol
I've gone back and forth between Windows and Linux over the years. Currently on Win11 for my main/gaming system. When I use Linux, I prefer MX Linux. Very low memory footprint, long support, and great software package!
https://mxlinux.org/
I also have some retro systems. A P200 MMX and a 486DX/33 that I use for retro gaming. I don't bother with Win9x because all of my favorite games are strictly MS-DOS. I'm a RPG guy.
Could you have upgraded your laptop to 16GB? That would give you plenty for Win10/11. But if Mint is floating your boat, more power to you!
LibreOffice is a great alternative to O365. Not perfect by any means, but definitely doable.
https://mxlinux.org/
I also have some retro systems. A P200 MMX and a 486DX/33 that I use for retro gaming. I don't bother with Win9x because all of my favorite games are strictly MS-DOS. I'm a RPG guy.
Could you have upgraded your laptop to 16GB? That would give you plenty for Win10/11. But if Mint is floating your boat, more power to you!
LibreOffice is a great alternative to O365. Not perfect by any means, but definitely doable.
My only complaint about Linux is the weird file names. Don't get me wrong, I've been using various versions of Linux for years, but that file naming convention is just something I can't get into my brain.
Windows systems and DOS for that matter, seemed to come more naturally for me. There is no doubt that Windows makes you relinquish ALL expected privacy now, so that is reason enough for me to NOT go to Win11. And the constant ads and nags of course.
Windows systems and DOS for that matter, seemed to come more naturally for me. There is no doubt that Windows makes you relinquish ALL expected privacy now, so that is reason enough for me to NOT go to Win11. And the constant ads and nags of course.
Moved to Linux almost fourteen years ago. After moving around Ubuntu, Peppermint and Mint several times, I've been on Linux Mint Mate for several years. Everything still snaps on an old HP I-3 mini box that I picked up for well under $100 including Windows 10 which I zapped before firing up. I'm happy and don't care if I'm bleeding edge or not. Linux Mint has never let me down.
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I definitely appreciate small footprints, but at least for me, distros like MX, antiX, Puppy, etc., etc. involve an unacceptable tradeoff for that lightness. They all are too tied to legacy systems like X11 and old-style package managers (rather than the newer containerized systems).
X11 is a dated, insecure system that is on its way out, with it's replacement (Wayland) have a far more rational design. Package managers are also becoming insecure, with package containerization quickly becoming the new norm
The W10 EOL has been unfortunate for me as I really hate being forced to do major, inter-distro upgrades. IMO, going with a distro that uses dead-end systems like X11 just means you're headed to an eventual box canyon and will likely be forced into a distro-switch at some point.
Mint has a really slow development process, which in one sense can be good, but given they have still not moved past X11, it appears to me that their process is unacceptably slow.
I ended up splitting all the differences by going with regular Ubuntu LTS. Since it's LTS, it moves slowly which is perfect for someone like me who values stability.
But Ubuntu is also a leader, always at the frontier of all the "technologies of the future" so you don't get stranded in dead-ends. Thus, it strikes a balance-- it has Wayland, Snap, etc., but with LTS those features are released at slow, reasonable, controlled, and stable rate.
And on top of that, regular Ubuntu/Gnome isn't even that big, resource-wise. I did a full install of the (MX relative) antiX, and once a heavy-weight, Chrome-based browser was added, it was only ~15% lighter (in memory use and disk space) than my Ubuntu install. And Ubuntu was objectively better in pretty much every way.
Finally, long-term usability: I had Ubuntu 14 on my 2008 Lenovo x60 when I last used in in ~2016. Put it away when work forced me to switch to windows, and last year I fired it up for the first time. I was shocked that I was able iteratively upgrade all the way up to Ubuntu 24! So, unlike the Win10 situation, Ubuntu just kept upgrading to today on that old machine.
So, Ubuntu LTS doesn't develop too fast or too slow, isn't too big or too small, can run over several generation on the same hardware. Just a nice, middle of the road install. Perhaps akin to the Honda Accord/Toyota Camry of Linux distros?
MX (and its relatives) are more like a 1979 F-150. It's simple and will get the job done. But it is very outdated and probably not the best if long-term performance with regular use is the goal.
I've used LO a great deal over two decades. It's fine, but it would really benefit from 1) cell phone app version, 2) webapp version.
What makes it insecure? I'm looking to run all personal PCs on Linux and while I don't really do or have much, if anything that requires lots of security, I'd like to have a distro that is secure above my needs. I'm currently on Mint, which I thought was Ubuntu under the hood, but don't really want to use it if there are better, more secure options.
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X11 is really old, and there have been ~3 decades of patches and extensions to keep it workable as the graphical-interface world evolved to a place today that would be unrecognizable back in the days when the architecture of X11 was first laid down.
As such, X11 has evolved into a "bowl of spaghetti" code that has numerous vulnerabilities, and, frankly, seems to be collapsing under its own weight while delivering that unsatisfying (and potentially dangerous) performance.
Wayland was a clean sheet design that is built from a modern starting point. It is far more rational (no spaghetti!) and secure than X11.
The main reasons X11 still exist today are 1) hardware older than ~2007 (basically) require it, and 2) distro maintainers must climb a significant wall of inertia to make the switch to Wayland.
As with package containerization, Wayland is the future of Linux, and I was careful to pick the leanest distro I could find that was fully compliant with modern realities so as to maintain long-term relevance. While distros like MX have their place in legacy hardware applications, they (IMO) are simply not in the mainstream development streams, and I think are best used by those with a specific need for it.
Mint is historically pretty conservative, and a positive spin on that is they don't cause problems by jumping on bandwagons until a new paradigm is pretty well worked out. Yes, Mint is connected to Ubuntu at its core, but they are not joined at the hip-- Mint can (and does) develop at a different rate than Ubuntu.
Unlike MX, I would say that there is little risk that Mint will be left in the dust as a vintage/legacy app that will be barely relevant in the future. I'm sure Mint will get all modern paradigms incorporated in their own time and their own way. If you like Mint, I don't see any harm in sticking with it.
But in my case, while I have other reasons why I don't like Mint, a main reason is that, while I don't want to use a distro that spastically lurches to whatever new thing comes around, I do want new paradigms implemented at a reasonably quick manner.
For me, Ubuntu LTS splits the difference perfectly. Canonical is in the server business, so they have to be on the ball as far as implementing new paradigms (especially when they involve security).
But the LTS versions make sure the transitions are smooth, the new paradigms work, and users can go on computing without disruption knowing that Canonical is always working in the background to make sure everything is both modern and bug-free.
My personal preference in desktops is Gnome, precisely because it also splits differences nicely-- nearly as powerful as KDE, nearly as light as ICEWM. Kind of fits the Ubuntu vibe (and also mine).
Note that I am far from a computer expert and I highly recommend that you consider others' comments. All opinions I express about computers have a non-zero probability of being wrong!
Dude, a 3-year-old laptop is young compared to my friend's 2015 laptop that started life running Windows 8, upgraded to 8.1 then 10 died because it couldn't go to 11 (thank God!). He got a refurb from Best Buy with Windows 11 installed. wonder how long it will last and how many upgrades this one will get
I appreciate you taking the time to respond! I will continue to read and search for a distro - I'm not really tied to it and have used Ubuntu quite a bit in the past.. I'd like to try Debian Plasma. I tried to install it the other day but ended up with some sort of command line prompt to log in. Either I messed up or it's probably above my pay grade.X11 is really old, and there have been ~3 decades of patches and extensions to keep it workable as the graphical-interface world evolved to a place today that would be unrecognizable back in the days when the architecture of X11 was first laid down.
As such, X11 has evolved into a "bowl of spaghetti" code that has numerous vulnerabilities, and, frankly, seems to be collapsing under its own weight while delivering that unsatisfying (and potentially dangerous) performance.
Wayland was a clean sheet design that is built from a modern starting point. It is far more rational (no spaghetti!) and secure than X11.
The main reasons X11 still exist today are 1) hardware older than ~2007 (basically) require it, and 2) distro maintainers must climb a significant wall of inertia to make the switch to Wayland.
As with package containerization, Wayland is the future of Linux, and I was careful to pick the leanest distro I could find that was fully compliant with modern realities so as to maintain long-term relevance. While distros like MX have their place in legacy hardware applications, they (IMO) are simply not in the mainstream development streams, and I think are best used by those with a specific need for it.
Mint is historically pretty conservative, and a positive spin on that is they don't cause problems by jumping on bandwagons until a new paradigm is pretty well worked out. Yes, Mint is connected to Ubuntu at its core, but they are not joined at the hip-- Mint can (and does) develop at a different rate than Ubuntu.
Unlike MX, I would say that there is little risk that Mint will be left in the dust as a vintage/legacy app that will be barely relevant in the future. I'm sure Mint will get all modern paradigms incorporated in their own time and their own way. If you like Mint, I don't see any harm in sticking with it.
But in my case, while I have other reasons why I don't like Mint, a main reason is that, while I don't want to use a distro that spastically lurches to whatever new thing comes around, I do want new paradigms implemented at a reasonably quick manner.
For me, Ubuntu LTS splits the difference perfectly. Canonical is in the server business, so they have to be on the ball as far as implementing new paradigms (especially when they involve security).
But the LTS versions make sure the transitions are smooth, the new paradigms work, and users can go on computing without disruption knowing that Canonical is always working in the background to make sure everything is both modern and bug-free.
My personal preference in desktops is Gnome, precisely because it also splits differences nicely-- nearly as powerful as KDE, nearly as light as ICEWM. Kind of fits the Ubuntu vibe (and also mine).
Note that I am far from a computer expert and I highly recommend that you consider others' comments. All opinions I express about computers have a non-zero probability of being wrong!
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I'm still pretty happy with Zorin as a bare metal install on my home machine, a Lenovo Idea Pad 3, Core i3, 8GB, 256 SSD.
Still using XFCE Mint on my work machine as a VM, pretty happy with that also.
Still using XFCE Mint on my work machine as a VM, pretty happy with that also.
Check out the "Top things to do after installing Ubuntu or Linux Mint" it's really helpful.I have a Lenovo CoreI3 laptop, not really that old, maybe 3 years tops. 8GB RAM, 256 SSD, 15.6 screen. Not a bad laptop at the time I got it, paid $249 for it at BestBuy. I block all China IPs on my Ubiquiti router so it can't ever call home.
This laptop supported upgrading to Windows 11 and I was running it, up until Saturday. But with the Core I3 and 8GB of RAM was up to 70% of memory usage just booted up with nothing running.
I recently reset the laptop within Windows 11, told it to keep all my files but to reset evertything else.
This action didn't make that much of a difference, yes it was a little better, but not enough to make it a great experience.
Got frustrated with the whole deal just looking at it sitting there with so much resource usage, doing nothing. Decided to make a break for LinuxMint, which I use and like as a VM on my work machine. I created a Rufus bootable disk with Linux Mint Cinnamon ISO, got into my machine's BIOS and changed the boot order. Proceeded to boot off the USB stick and install.
After installing:
Pros:
Super fast
Way Less memory usage 1.2 GB fully booted up.
Way less CPU usage - nearly 0% just sitting there idiling
Battery life much better
Did NOT disable UEFI or Secure Boot in the BIOS, seems to be working fine with LinuxMint
Cons:
Some Lenovo keyboard buttons don't work.
Closing the laptop lid doesn't work, have to manually suspend machine using the power button.
Less software (but most of the stuff I use is cloud based anyway)
Doesn't natively support M365 - I have a family subscription, so integrating that will probably be my biggest challenge.
Other thought:
I did install VirtualBox, since the resource usage is so much lower, maybe I can get a Windows 11 IoT LTSC spun up
Parting thoughts:
I'm not sure this would work for everyone who is used to using Windows, but for me I think it will work fine and the benefits will be worth the effort it takes to work around things like M365 that don't have native integration in Linux.
There's nothing wrong with Windows per se but the hardware requirements seem to be ever increasing beyond what's reasonable. I think the days of having a good experience with 8GB of RAM with Windows 11 is over. You really need at least 16GB.
My work machine is a Dell Precision with a 10 Core, 12 thread processor and 64GB of RAM. Windows runs extremely well on it, but it's also expensive overkill.
I'm pretty happy with this experiment so far of going whole hog into Linux.
