Just as they( i.e. Pablo's evil speculators )did leading up to the last recession they caused they will push and push energy prices higher until everything blows up again and then prices will fall. I would not be suprised to see $4-$4.50 around here come the summer. If gas hits that range or even breaks $5 for the National average you will see the economy crash again. Well get worse because it sure as shooting hasn't got any better. This country can not handle gas at $4-$5+. Just not possible with how spread out we are.
Gas prices in 1 year
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Who ARE these "speculators"?
They wield more power than OPEC?
They wield more power than OPEC?
So,the best personal finance decision is to defer the purchase of a new car as long as possible. Cars will be getting more fuel efficient every year. The longer you wait,to buy,the more efficient your car will be and the more you can save on gasoline purchases to defray part of the cost of the new car.
Originally Posted By: j_mac
Is Pablo the only person at BITOG that understands that it is OPEC causing the economic chaos in the US and the world.
OPEC sets the prices arbitrarily where it wants them and that dictates the final price at the pump!
Opec is just the tip of the iceberg.
Is Pablo the only person at BITOG that understands that it is OPEC causing the economic chaos in the US and the world.
OPEC sets the prices arbitrarily where it wants them and that dictates the final price at the pump!
Opec is just the tip of the iceberg.
Are these gas prices making you miss Saddam Hussiean. He was keeping oil cheap and the Bush oil people and their buddies didn't like it.
you guy`s ever watch conspiracy theory?
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Are these gas prices making you miss Saddam Hussiean. He was keeping oil cheap and the Bush oil people and their buddies didn't like it.
...lock
Are these gas prices making you miss Saddam Hussiean. He was keeping oil cheap and the Bush oil people and their buddies didn't like it.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Are these gas prices making you miss Saddam Hussiean. He was keeping oil cheap and the Bush oil people and their buddies didn't like it.
...lock
WOW! that`s freakin me out! ^^^^^
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Are these gas prices making you miss Saddam Hussiean. He was keeping oil cheap and the Bush oil people and their buddies didn't like it.
WOW! that`s freakin me out! ^^^^^
Originally Posted By: lexus114
you guy`s ever watch conspiracy theory?
Where the steroid deranged ex-wrestler, ex-governor pins all our problems on Goldman Sachs by haranguing some so called jr. traders? Yeah seen that.
you guy`s ever watch conspiracy theory?
Where the steroid deranged ex-wrestler, ex-governor pins all our problems on Goldman Sachs by haranguing some so called jr. traders? Yeah seen that.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: lexus114
you guy`s ever watch conspiracy theory?
Where the steroid deranged ex-wrestler, ex-governor pins all our problems on Goldman Sachs by haranguing some so called jr. traders? Yeah seen that.
uh.....yeah,that`s it.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
you guy`s ever watch conspiracy theory?
Where the steroid deranged ex-wrestler, ex-governor pins all our problems on Goldman Sachs by haranguing some so called jr. traders? Yeah seen that.
uh.....yeah,that`s it.
Propflux01
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People really shouldn't complain about gas prices that much. In 1984, national average per gallon of gas was $1.21. Minimum wage was $3.35/hr. Thats roughly 1/3 of a persons Min wage to a gallon of gas. Now, todays National average is $3.05 (as of 27 Dec 2010) per gallon with a Min wage of $7.25. That is just a hair over 1/3 -- Thats not much change Over 26 YEARS!!
I tell you - if we are sticking with IC engines in NA, then we should be using more NG to fuel them...a real disconnect.
CAN'T trust me though, because I'm one of those wild-eyed speculators who owns a few thousand shares of UNG!!
http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html
Flurp.
CAN'T trust me though, because I'm one of those wild-eyed speculators who owns a few thousand shares of UNG!!
http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html
Flurp.
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
People really shouldn't complain about gas prices that much. In 1984, national average per gallon of gas was $1.21. Minimum wage was $3.35/hr. Thats roughly 1/3 of a persons Min wage to a gallon of gas. Now, todays National average is $3.05 (as of 27 Dec 2010) per gallon with a Min wage of $7.25. That is just a hair over 1/3 -- Thats not much change Over 26 YEARS!!
I remember that, but I also remember the price didn't stay there too long. It dropped down to around dollar and below to 80 cents/gal and stayed around there for many years until somewhere around 2002. I also remember a lot of fuel efficient inexpensive cars available in the 80's and a lot of jobs so that few payed minimum wage, and a lot of good paying jobs as well.
People really shouldn't complain about gas prices that much. In 1984, national average per gallon of gas was $1.21. Minimum wage was $3.35/hr. Thats roughly 1/3 of a persons Min wage to a gallon of gas. Now, todays National average is $3.05 (as of 27 Dec 2010) per gallon with a Min wage of $7.25. That is just a hair over 1/3 -- Thats not much change Over 26 YEARS!!
I remember that, but I also remember the price didn't stay there too long. It dropped down to around dollar and below to 80 cents/gal and stayed around there for many years until somewhere around 2002. I also remember a lot of fuel efficient inexpensive cars available in the 80's and a lot of jobs so that few payed minimum wage, and a lot of good paying jobs as well.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I tell you - if we are sticking with IC engines in NA, then we should be using more NG to fuel them...a real disconnect.
CAN'T trust me though, because I'm one of those wild-eyed speculators who owns a few thousand shares of UNG!!
http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html
Flurp.
Pablo I would agree NG should be used more. But when people talk about speculators they're not talking about the average person with a few thousand dollars worth of shares. They are talking about people who control millions and billions of dollars worth of shares and who can affect pricing and those buying gas futures in quanities that affect the price. It seems like the average joes watch certain news media and believe they are in the super rich category and buy the line they're selling when they are just average joes being harmed by these actions.
I tell you - if we are sticking with IC engines in NA, then we should be using more NG to fuel them...a real disconnect.
CAN'T trust me though, because I'm one of those wild-eyed speculators who owns a few thousand shares of UNG!!
http://www.wtrg.com/daily/oilandgasspot.html
Flurp.
Pablo I would agree NG should be used more. But when people talk about speculators they're not talking about the average person with a few thousand dollars worth of shares. They are talking about people who control millions and billions of dollars worth of shares and who can affect pricing and those buying gas futures in quanities that affect the price. It seems like the average joes watch certain news media and believe they are in the super rich category and buy the line they're selling when they are just average joes being harmed by these actions.
I'm thinking regular at $3.50 midsummer.
High fuel oil demand is probably pushing up oil prices at the moment, and the winter will end.
I don't think that the world economy has recovered to the point that we will see $4.00 gas this summer.
Also, as Iraqi production comes reliably back onstream, if it does, prices will likely be moderated.
High fuel oil demand is probably pushing up oil prices at the moment, and the winter will end.
I don't think that the world economy has recovered to the point that we will see $4.00 gas this summer.
Also, as Iraqi production comes reliably back onstream, if it does, prices will likely be moderated.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Pablo I would agree NG should be used more. But when people talk about speculators they're not talking about the average person with a few thousand dollars worth of shares. They are talking about people who control millions and billions of dollars worth of shares and who can affect pricing and those buying gas futures in quanities that affect the price. It seems like the average joes watch certain news media and believe they are in the super rich category and buy the line they're selling when they are just average joes being harmed by these actions.
I agree that futures contracts with 10:1 leverage are a bit insane, when they move, they move fast - both ways. Faster than an oil sheik sneaking one out in his (not so) crowded room. Do these contracts move the market by themselves....do they create news driving long or short? Maybe they do. Are they some cartel with oil companies? I doubt that. Sitting around saying muwaahahahahahaha we are now going to make the oil price go up.......whhaahahahahahah......now we are going to make it go down.....weeheehehehhehee......
No, sorry to say - our stinking weak dollar can do that just fine.
Do arbitragers themselves drive the market, or just take advantage? I doubt they are driving the market.
Average joes always want to blame anyone else, I doubt too many of us think we are in the super rich class!! Why allow someone else to harm you? Take advantage of the crowd (clown) movement. You can do very well thinking like a (smart) rich person.....dudes write books on that junk.
Ah, but lumping all "speculators" together, slapping a label on them and saying they are the cause. That's just lazy ignorance.
Pablo I would agree NG should be used more. But when people talk about speculators they're not talking about the average person with a few thousand dollars worth of shares. They are talking about people who control millions and billions of dollars worth of shares and who can affect pricing and those buying gas futures in quanities that affect the price. It seems like the average joes watch certain news media and believe they are in the super rich category and buy the line they're selling when they are just average joes being harmed by these actions.
I agree that futures contracts with 10:1 leverage are a bit insane, when they move, they move fast - both ways. Faster than an oil sheik sneaking one out in his (not so) crowded room. Do these contracts move the market by themselves....do they create news driving long or short? Maybe they do. Are they some cartel with oil companies? I doubt that. Sitting around saying muwaahahahahahaha we are now going to make the oil price go up.......whhaahahahahahah......now we are going to make it go down.....weeheehehehhehee......
No, sorry to say - our stinking weak dollar can do that just fine.
Do arbitragers themselves drive the market, or just take advantage? I doubt they are driving the market.
Average joes always want to blame anyone else, I doubt too many of us think we are in the super rich class!! Why allow someone else to harm you? Take advantage of the crowd (clown) movement. You can do very well thinking like a (smart) rich person.....dudes write books on that junk.
Ah, but lumping all "speculators" together, slapping a label on them and saying they are the cause. That's just lazy ignorance.
The weak value of the US dollar, on the international market, is a factor in current commodity pricing and oil prices to come over at least the short term. It is only one factor, and the only direct economic one I can think of.
The other is that we are simply past peak oil. This is point when supplies are the cheapest they will ever be to extract, using the current technology, over the known existing deposits; its also the point when the few wells that produce, collectively, the largest percentage of world demand, are known to contain less than 50% of oil that can be extracted from them.
There is no need to speculate on oil prices for them to go up. In fact, the one feeds the other. Supply, relative to extraction and refining costs versus world demand (increasing rapidly, largely due to the rapid industrialist of China taking place that is also using cheaper, older, more inefficient means of energy production) is simply shrinking. Or more accurately, what's left is more expensive, and risky (BP's recent deep drilling disaster typifies), to extract while demand continues to rise.
Speculators know this, know the price is going to naturally be set higher as a result (to maximize profits by the oil producing and exporting nations), and that its a good, safe, productive investment.
So there are several factors. Things mentioned play a role, but not in isolation.
-Spyder
The other is that we are simply past peak oil. This is point when supplies are the cheapest they will ever be to extract, using the current technology, over the known existing deposits; its also the point when the few wells that produce, collectively, the largest percentage of world demand, are known to contain less than 50% of oil that can be extracted from them.
There is no need to speculate on oil prices for them to go up. In fact, the one feeds the other. Supply, relative to extraction and refining costs versus world demand (increasing rapidly, largely due to the rapid industrialist of China taking place that is also using cheaper, older, more inefficient means of energy production) is simply shrinking. Or more accurately, what's left is more expensive, and risky (BP's recent deep drilling disaster typifies), to extract while demand continues to rise.
Speculators know this, know the price is going to naturally be set higher as a result (to maximize profits by the oil producing and exporting nations), and that its a good, safe, productive investment.
So there are several factors. Things mentioned play a role, but not in isolation.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Who ARE these "speculators"?
They wield more power than OPEC?
Old article, but discussed speculators:
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2008/6/27/6-myths-about-oil-speculators
And a later article:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/08/104979/remember-4-gasoline-oil-speculators.html
Who ARE these "speculators"?
They wield more power than OPEC?
Old article, but discussed speculators:
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2008/6/27/6-myths-about-oil-speculators
And a later article:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/08/104979/remember-4-gasoline-oil-speculators.html
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