Gas $4.15 per gallon

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Originally Posted By: Cujet
First, there is no shortage of energy.

That's a big blanket statement that is pretty meaningless by itself.
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Second, there is plenty of oil

Absolutely - at least in absolute terms. In relative terms, as we factor in where these sources are, and their comparative cost to locate and extract, your statement doesn't mean much. The problem isn't an abundance issue; its that abundance is located in places that cost more to extract it out of, and that cost is naturally passed to the consumer.
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Third, there are plenty of viable alternatives

Again this is true, but we are far behind in the development of these alternatives, and this is why we're held hostage to $4 and $5 a gallon gas prices with no end in sight. Although there is an upshot in that at last we are finally taking some real steps at implementing alternatives, which will bring relief at some point in the future.
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With that in mind, who cares what size car I drive?

I could care less what you drive. Unless its a gas guzzler that you complain about how expensive it is to fill up. And even then it has nothing to do with what you drive, and everything to do with the disconnect and sense of entitlement that suggests you have it as some kind of right to expect to drive any size vehicle while paying almost nothing to fill it up.

You have no such right. The only thing you're entitled to is to pay the prevailing rate that any energy importer should expect to pay, and which the non-nationalized exporters are paying as well.

-Spyder
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
If you can afford to buy an Expedition, you can afford to fill it up.

BTW, absolutely nothing wrong with shopping at Walmart.

Exactly. Hence I'm not complaining (and you won't see me complain) but was just pointing out in a jesting fashion that we pay WAY more than you guys do for fuel.
grin.gif


Not going to delve into the Walmart comment, my reference to it was solely to address how much oil we use for things other than gasoline. I am very much against the idea of the "disposable society", I think that's all that needs to be said on that for you to see my position.
 
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
They have a noose around our neck and can pull as hard as they want.

Yep...

And on its way to 5 bucks....

$5.30CDN per US gallon here in Vancouver BC Canada. Shannow et al, what are the costs in Australia? Or European countries?
 
Michigan requires a lot of MTBE and other "clean air" additives...other places that require it have equally distorted prices...like other markets, these oxygenation additives are in short supply
 
I personally think that we are entitled to drive what we want to drive. If you can "afford" it, go for it. I just don't like hearing people driving brand new Escalades whining about price, or the guys who buy a new pickup in 2011 whine about price. You bought the SUV/Truck SEEING THE PRICES go up. How can you whine about it? Now the problem I have is the we have so sharply now, TWICE hit a peak price(still climbing this time) in a short span of 3 years.

Speculators are indeed a factor. Supply and Demand are a factor but this isn't an issue of "NOW", but more of "THEN". The prices today are based on a lot of "IF"s. What is supply going to be like in X years etc. Then you have misinformation all over the net and literary sources. There is no definitive/correct answer to WHY the prices are going up.

Supposedly there is enough oil to sustain us for many decades, possibly a century or more. Others state 20 years. They blame price climbs on the Tornado's, Middle East, etc etc. Supposedly we have plenty of places here, within the US we can tap for oil but we don't. See where this is going? It's a finger pointing, smoke and mirrors thread since we do not have facts, its all opinion, even the people in the "business" spout opinion. This can go into a political scandal pending on who pitches and spins information.

All I can say is that, at least here in the US we need MORE options.

1) More Hybrids
2) Diesels(Europe is FILLED with them).
3) PRICE. They want us to get into these higher MPG/efficient vehicles but who can afford to blow 40k(less with incentives) on a Chevy VOLT? The not the average Joe Schmoe. Maybe the Escalade guy can. The Nissan Leaf after all rebates/incentives can be had for 15-20k.(10k with Sony discount). With MOST(not all) manufacturers the Hybrid/Diesel model is priced higher than the highest gasoline engine trim(Toyota's for example). I know Ford has it slightly different offering it near base models on a few of them.

We need more options, we need to price them accordingly and fairly. We probably need a restructuring of our transit system as well.
 
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"We need more options, we need to price them accordingly and fairly. We probably need a restructuring of our transit system as well."


No truer words have been spoken. Give people choices (ones they can afford would be nice), and one might be surprised what they choose..
 
People have made their choice. They want big cars. And all of these "green" cars are far under priced since there are lots of subsidies that lower it.

Mass transit is nearly always a failure and waste of money.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
People have made their choice. They want big cars.


And they want to fill them up with $2 a gallon gasoline too. This is where 'wants' and reality clash and why so many people who went with what they wanted soon had some pretty nasty buyer's remorse.

We can't always have what we want, its not always practical or feasible. Most people learn this as they make the developmental leap from childhood to adulthood. And some people never learn.

-Spyder
 
Originally Posted By: NJC
daves87rs said:
$5.30CDN per US gallon here in Vancouver BC Canada. Shannow et al, what are the costs in Australia? Or European countries?


Is that price converted from Imperial gallon price? I think Canada uses Imperial gallons which are more than US gallons.
 
That is US gallons as he indicates in his post. I did a conversion of our own price here on the opposite coast to US gallons and arrived at a similar figure.

-Spyder
 
I enjoy laughing at the people that look at gas prices while moaning and crying about them. Then get rid of their PAID FOR truck, only to take out a 30k loan for some stupid Prius. These people have no idea how to do the math, LOL.

I also enjoyed the Top Gear episode where they showed that a BMW M3 gets better mileage than a Prius in everyday driving.
 
Transit isn't a waste if its done right. Europe and Japan have/had(latter) good transit systems in place.

Trading a paid for Truck for a car payment+fuel is stupid. It's a lose lose proposition. There are only a FEW subsidized cars, even after being subsidized they are still fairly over priced. The Volt is still 30k+ after discounts. The only fairly priced efficient cars are the Leaf, Corolla, Yaris, Fiesta/Focus and others.

The problem is look at how "small" they are. The mid-size sedans aren't nearly as well priced and efficient for the price if buying new. That is why I stated we need MORE options. Options = competition which creates opportunities. Need more Hybrid or Diesel powered cars that are cheaper and comparable or the same size as mid-size vehicles.

A fuel efficient/high mpg SUV/Truck isn't feasible unless you sacrifice its utility. I'd dare venture to say that the real way to have people switch is not raise gas prices, but cease the creation of these inefficient vehicles for non business use.
 
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If you can "afford" it, go for it. I just don't like hearing people driving brand new Escalades whining about price, or the guys who buy a new pickup in 2011 whine about price. You bought the SUV/Truck SEEING THE PRICES go up. How can you whine about it?


YEP, same goes for all those people that drive a fancy BMW, Benz, Audi. Lexus...etc and then complain that their car needs the most expensive octane gasoline. I wonder if those people can really afford that type of car if they cry about paying an extra 20 cents per gallon ?
 
Originally Posted By: AdRock
I enjoy laughing at the people that look at gas prices while moaning and crying about them. Then get rid of their PAID FOR truck, only to take out a 30k loan for some stupid Prius. These people have no idea how to do the math, LOL.

I also enjoyed the Top Gear episode where they showed that a BMW M3 gets better mileage than a Prius in everyday driving.


who knows? maybe the schmoe drives 30k/yr in his paid for SUV/Truck and might as well jump ship before gas jumps to $5/gallon?
 
$6 here for RUG tonight (and yes that's $US/GalUS)...our $ seems to mean nothing when it comes to finished fuel prices...$6.35 for diesel or premium.

Honestly, I think that the colonies get a more volatile price, and it hangs around longer so that the home country can get less volatility, and drop prices quicker
 
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