Originally Posted by Fordiesel69
**This thread will only apply to people that drive in snow and ice***
Some people believe in being cheap and only putting snow tires on the drive axle as that is what was done in the old days when they were growing up. All they had primarily was RWD rear wheel drive beasts which no doubt was not an issue, you just had to plan your stops better and pump the brakes. And quite frankly the traction was limited anyways with tires of that era. Cars simple weighed a lot and people adapted and im sure lots of people crashed too.
Fast forwarding directly to the point, I can reproduce it every time and cannot recover it very well. If you place 2 nice studded snow tires on the front axle of a FWD vehicle, and leave your all season tires on the rear, the back end will get loose on you when you let OFF the gas pedal. When you try to correct the issue or hit the brakes, it will make it worse. The only way to recover is to step hard on the gas and steer away to the direction you want it to recover. BUT.....if you are trying to slow down or stop for an intersection, this wont work either.
So.....we know the answer is to buy 4 snow tires and the problem goes away, but my question is simple, with good skill is there a technique to recover this oversteer condition and still get the vehicle stopped? Or will a modern vehicle with ABS or stability control prevent this?
The four matching tires rule is ideal but people are cheap and want to cut corners or think the tire shop or employee is selling more that what's is needed not really believing the way a car behaves with just two of the four correct tires. FWD does a good job pulling out of trouble as you say and ABS is a good substitute for pumping brakes they way we used to do it. I tend to drop the auto into sport mode at times as it gears lower and both engine speed and tires cause drag to kill momentum. This does not inhibit steering the way a stab at brakes would on ice.
ABS helps maintain steering input but it is at cost IMO. In the worst case situations like glare ice, off-camber downward hill, the vehicle is still going to glide toward the fall line once the tires are skating. I say practice these maneuvers where possible to gain some feel for the tries you have, the ice or snow you get in that area and try to get comfortable at that threshold in a controlled area. The pucker factor that visits us only detracts in our ability to smoothly control a situation. Being all rigid or in a state of panic is an added obstacle we don't need.
Originally Posted by Dave9
The answer is simple. Don't think in terms of "these FWD winter tires allow me to drive faster", rather think "these FWD winter tires allow me to not get stuck as easily". If you're going the same slow speed that you'd need to stay stable with all season tires on both axles, you have that on the rear wheels still no matter what you have on the FWD wheels.
If the conditions are really hairy, particularly needing to go DOWN steep/icy hills, you need all 4 tires to be winter tires and even then, re-evaluate your true need to drive those roads. Even if it isn't you that loses control, it can easily be someone else that does then hits you.
Can you recover from rear end loss? Sure, but you better have some space around you, and practice, and ability to stay calm in such situations which is where many people go wrong, panicking instead of driving their way out of it, but to be fair, in a variable traction environment, you won't know how much compensation is overcompensation till you get some traction and start changing course.
If you think it's not safe to drive or are too impatient to drive slow enough for the conditions (or arguably the other vehicles on the road are doing this), don't drive unless the need outweighs the risk.
100 % ALL the above.
If you don't want panic, getting stuck, hit, crashing or sliding, drive the speed and roads that won't invite trouble if you get out at all. Waiting a bit often helps too; Plows or road crews out working on it or a warm sunny temp rise can mean big advantages. Your patience might keep you off the road at the worst times and others on the road that are impatient might be drivers that will end up hitting someone else that was probably doing everything right.