Future 2017 Dodge Charger -- Italian-ification

[ExMachina]

Fiat, the parent company, says the next Charger will look a lot like a 1999 Charger concept car that never got built:

(reference: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150826...rprises-for-fca )
For comparison, here is the 2016 Charger which uses the MercedesBenz chassis components left over from when MB ran the show:

What's interesting is Fiat wants to use modified Maserati Ghibli suspension and pan pieces (from which the new Alfa Romeo Giulia derives from).

Pretty soon we'll all be speaking Italian, so get used to the takeover.

They really need to expand the greenhouse roominess, especially in the back seat, if they want to keep the Police Vehicle market they've been dominating recently. Otherwise, this could be a great car as long as the new suspension and steering is at least as good as the current Charger.

Also notice in the Automotive News article, we are getting a Hellcat powered Jeep Grand Cherokee that will do 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds!! The world needs that like it needs the invention of a 5-lb donut. Fiat hasn't gotten the memo that CAFE is coming. The other announcement, a Jeep Wrangler-based pickup truck, does sound cool & more practical.

 

[michaelluscher]

The LX platform the Charger/300 are based on was one of the best things Chrysler got out of the Daimler fiasco

That being said, it's getting long in the tooth, and Chrysler needs something new

What do you have against Fiat?

 

[mrsilv04]

Which police vehicle market that Dodge has been dominating recently.... you mean the market dominated by the Ford (Explorer) Interceptor? That one?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Which police vehicle market that Dodge has been dominating recently.... you mean the market dominated by the Ford (Explorer) Interceptor? That one?


Not all police dept's are running all SUV Explorers. Yes, Explorers are popular, but you see more Chargers around by far I think. I wonder if someone can dig up the sales numbers? I'll try. I'm going by the fact that new Chargers are seen EVERYWHERE.

Edit: You're right, police departments are buying Explorers in greater numbers. Charger still popular, and of course there are still more out there than Explorers right now. http://www.government-fleet.com/channel/...e-cop-cars.aspx

 

[DoubleWasp]

Nobody intending on doing a high speed chase is going to order an Explorer.

The Hellcat GC will not affect CAFE numbers any more than a Hellcat Challenger. Very few will be built.

It's being built for the same reason any powerhouse vehicle is built: It's fun, if you can afford it.

 

[simple_gifts]

That is seriously unattractive. Color and form looks like a Hot Wheels car from the late 1960's.

 

[OVERKILL]

The current Charger looks a LOT better that THAT

 

[earlyre]

bah! they should do their [censored] to make it look like a Charger.
specifically, the 2nd Gen B-Body Charger(1968-70), the Body most folks automatically think of when you say "Dodge Charger"

I'm Talking Bullit, The Fast and Furious Movies, The General Lee, Plymouth Superbird/Charger Daytona.

I would post pictures, but i think everyone knows the shape i speak of.

 

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Which police vehicle market that Dodge has been dominating recently.... you mean the market dominated by the Ford (Explorer) Interceptor? That one?


Not all police dept's are running all SUV Explorers. Yes, Explorers are popular, but you see more Chargers around by far I think. I wonder if someone can dig up the sales numbers? I'll try. I'm going by the fact that new Chargers are seen EVERYWHERE.

Edit: You're right, police departments are buying Explorers in greater numbers. Charger still popular, and of course there are still more out there than Explorers right now. http://www.government-fleet.com/channel/...e-cop-cars.aspx [/quote
]I see alotnof Ford Taurus police cars round here

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Which police vehicle market that Dodge has been dominating recently.... you mean the market dominated by the Ford (Explorer) Interceptor? That one?


Not all police dept's are running all SUV Explorers. Yes, Explorers are popular, but you see more Chargers around by far I think. I wonder if someone can dig up the sales numbers? I'll try. I'm going by the fact that new Chargers are seen EVERYWHERE.

Edit: You're right, police departments are buying Explorers in greater numbers. Charger still popular, and of course there are still more out there than Explorers right now. http://www.government-fleet.com/channel/...e-cop-cars.aspx
I see alot of Ford Taurus police cars round here


it also varies greatly where you are/ what is made in your area.
around here it's mostly the Ford Models,with the explorer being the most Popular, but the engines that go in the Fords are locally Made.

I would assume the Fords are more popular in Chicagoland, b/c they are made at fords Chicago assembly plant. (I know Belvedere IL, has at least one Police Dodge Dart, a special one off made by the folks at Belvedere assembly for them)

when we visit my brother in DFW, I see Mostly Chevy products, a few Caprice PPVs, and a Lot of Tahoes. The Tahoe is Built in Arlington. it's a local product.

 

[MNgopher]

As far as the law enforcement vehicles are concerned, a lot of it varies regionally. In this neck of the woods, the Explorer is starting to become the go to law enforcement vehicle, particularly among sheriffs and local PD's. Given the capabilities of those in the snow, that is not a surprise I guess... In terms of the cars, seeing a fair amount of the Taurus based units, some of the Caprices, and very few Dodges. Seems like they are the odd man out. State Patrol seems to have a mix of both Caprices and Taurus based units these days to replace the Vics...

 

[SteveSRT8]

The LEO's we serve around here all love their Chargers. The Taurus' are simply too small inside.

Interestingly, the SUV Tahoes and Exploders are worth more money at resale time so they are very economical to own. Our local Sheriff has some really cool Tahoes with black steelies and a nifty lowered look.

Roomy and comfortable...

 

[IndyIan]

Our provincial police were using 2wd lowered Tahoes as well. I guess they are only about as bad as the CV's were in the snow? Now I see more Ford Explorers or Edges, which I assume are AWD.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Also notice in the Automotive News article, we are getting a Hellcat powered Jeep Grand Cherokee that will do 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds!! The world needs that like it needs the invention of a 5-lb donut. Fiat hasn't gotten the memo that CAFE is coming. The other announcement, a Jeep Wrangler-based pickup truck, does sound cool & more practical.


They got the memo. They'll discuss it after the sound of the cash register stops drowning out all conversation.

Ka-Ching

Ka-Ching

Ka-Ching

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Also notice in the Automotive News article, we are getting a Hellcat powered Jeep Grand Cherokee that will do 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds!! The world needs that like it needs the invention of a 5-lb donut. Fiat hasn't gotten the memo that CAFE is coming. The other announcement, a Jeep Wrangler-based pickup truck, does sound cool & more practical.


They got the memo. They'll discuss it after the sound of the cash register stops drowning out all conversation.

Ka-Ching

Ka-Ching

Ka-Ching


HangFire, your 5-lb donut is ready.....

 

[HangFire]

LOL

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Not all police dept's are running all SUV Explorers. Yes, Explorers are popular, but you see more Chargers around by far I think. I wonder if someone can dig up the sales numbers? I'll try. I'm going by the fact that new Chargers are seen EVERYWHERE.


Come to PA - Plenty of Fords as cop cars, especially by the PSP. Not a POS Dogde in sight. Go over to NJ and the NJSP is Caprice heavy.

Few locals here buy the Dodge. As has been reported, they just don't hold up.

Will be interesting to see how long FCA exists. With tightening CAFE requirements and the fact they have very little to help in that regard, I'd be surprised if they make it 10 more years without a merger (but who would take them).

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: itguy08

Come to PA - Plenty of Fords as cop cars, especially by the PSP. Not a POS Dogde in sight. Go over to NJ and the NJSP is Caprice heavy.
Few locals here buy the Dodge. As has been reported, they just don't hold up.


Yes, someone on another thread mentioned the Chargers were seeing too much front-end suspension unscheduled maintenance events. Wonder what's breaking? Tie-rod stretching, ball joints, what? It should be working OK, since these cars weren't born yesterday (track record, literally), and they are based on the Mercedes-Benz W220 S-class control arm front suspension & the Mercedes-Benz W211 E-Class 5-link rear suspension, not too shabby, AND it means they aren't "POS Dodge" as you put it.
Maybe the next Fiat-Maserati-suspension Dodge Charger PPV will be more durable.

I do think the new Caprice PPV is great, coming directly from the Pontiac G8 and current Chevy Camaro "Zeta" chassis, rock solid.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Yes, someone on another thread mentioned the Chargers were seeing too much front-end suspension unscheduled maintenance events. Wonder what's breaking? Tie-rod stretching, ball joints, what? It should be working OK, since these cars weren't born yesterday (track record, literally), and they are based on the Mercedes-Benz W220 S-class control arm front suspension & the Mercedes-Benz W211 E-Class 5-link rear suspension, not too shabby, AND it means they aren't "POS Dodge" as you put it.


Well then it's not up to the task - the abuse. Hence a POS. Based on does not mean that it's the same thing. I can base something on XXX but use weaker metals, weaker bolts, different bushings, etc. and have an issue. If anything those suspensions came from cars that were more luxury oriented than performance/durability oriented.

You don't see the Fords or the GM's having these issues. Because those companies actually put out a quality product and work with these agencies to understand how they use and abuse their vehicles.

Heck, the current Taurus PI should be a weak POS as it's front drive based. But it seems to be holding up well. Perhaps because Ford understands the market. As does GM.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Originally Posted By: itguy08

Come to PA - Plenty of Fords as cop cars, especially by the PSP. Not a POS Dogde in sight. Go over to NJ and the NJSP is Caprice heavy.
Few locals here buy the Dodge. As has been reported, they just don't hold up.


Yes, someone on another thread mentioned the Chargers were seeing too much front-end suspension unscheduled maintenance events. Wonder what's breaking? Tie-rod stretching, ball joints, what? It should be working OK, since these cars weren't born yesterday (track record, literally), and they are based on the Mercedes-Benz W220 S-class control arm front suspension & the Mercedes-Benz W211 E-Class 5-link rear suspension, not too shabby, AND it means they aren't "POS Dodge" as you put it.
Maybe the next Fiat-Maserati-suspension Dodge Charger PPV will be more durable.

I do think the new Caprice PPV is great, coming directly from the Pontiac G8 and current Chevy Camaro "Zeta" chassis, rock solid.


I believe it is the tie-rod ends primarily (which have been an issue on my wife's car) and the early steering racks were also problematic, though I believe that was resolved. The front suspension has a lot of parts that are simply just Mercedes parts, not just based-on.

My buddy who works at CT and wrenches on some of the LEO rigs says the same thing. Interestingly SteveSRT8 has noted the SRT cars have different (more robust) suspension goodies. Perhaps carrying those over to the LEO cars would be a wise move for Dodge

Powertrain-wise however, they hold up well. And I believe the suspension issues are all front-end, the rear is excellent. The Crown Vic had a lot simpler (and definitely less luxury/performance oriented) front suspension, which probably means it handles curbs, ditches and other forms of abuse for a longer duration before needing attention. The front suspension in the Charger looks VERY similar to what was on my M5, which is a fantastic setup but has numerous components/bushings that WILL wear out eventually and the big Euro cars are expected to have this stuff addressed at specific intervals.