I use M1 HM 5W30 in my 97 Camry with the 5SFE engine (known sludger) and change it every 5K. When the valve cover gasket was changed a while back the mechanic described the top end as being spotless. I figured that at around $26 for a 5 quart jug at Wal Mart, the oil choice and OCI made sense. I use either a Toyota OEM or M1 oil filter and change that every time too. The engine seems to be clean at 278,000 and I'm out for around $40 for each oil change.
Full synthetic for 5K OCI's under "severe" service
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Originally Posted By: mozart
I see your point. However, my owner's manuals say 5K max even with synthetic. To know for sure how long the synthetic could run I would have to pay for several oil change analyses.
Originally Posted By: jorton
Jeep Patriot
My Chrysler manual says to use the same oci for syn and conventional oil. 6000 miles, 8000 max.
Some manufacturers seem to have just one OCI. I think this is to simplyfy things for the owner, and make sure their engines don't fail no matter what oil is used. Once you have two OCIs you introduce the possibility for error, people using the wrong oil and going too long.
For some high performance engine it may make sense to change at 5k, however I doubt everyday Toyota engines are so hard on the oil you need 5k even with synthetic. I think the manufactuer is just trying to keep things simple. According to Mobil you can go over your manufacturer OCI.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-1-ep-oil-warranty
You could also look at other UOAs to see what results people had. For most people here this is a hobby and part of maintaining their car, not penny pinching and calculating how much they would pay with synthetic + UOA vs. conventional OCIs.
I see your point. However, my owner's manuals say 5K max even with synthetic. To know for sure how long the synthetic could run I would have to pay for several oil change analyses.
Originally Posted By: jorton
Jeep Patriot
My Chrysler manual says to use the same oci for syn and conventional oil. 6000 miles, 8000 max.
Some manufacturers seem to have just one OCI. I think this is to simplyfy things for the owner, and make sure their engines don't fail no matter what oil is used. Once you have two OCIs you introduce the possibility for error, people using the wrong oil and going too long.
For some high performance engine it may make sense to change at 5k, however I doubt everyday Toyota engines are so hard on the oil you need 5k even with synthetic. I think the manufactuer is just trying to keep things simple. According to Mobil you can go over your manufacturer OCI.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranties/limited-warranty/mobil-1-ep-oil-warranty
You could also look at other UOAs to see what results people had. For most people here this is a hobby and part of maintaining their car, not penny pinching and calculating how much they would pay with synthetic + UOA vs. conventional OCIs.
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Originally Posted By: jorton
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Jeep Patriot
My Chrysler manual says to use the same oci for syn and conventional oil. 6000 miles, 8000 max.
What's the recommended oil under the spec section?
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Jeep Patriot
My Chrysler manual says to use the same oci for syn and conventional oil. 6000 miles, 8000 max.
What's the recommended oil under the spec section?
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Plenty do. However, have you read some of the manual excerpts reproduced here? Some of them are completely nonsensical. Others are contradictory. Further, if a manual has called for an SN/GF-5 5w30, a suitable lube can be anything from Supertech to Mobil 1 EP. One has a 15,000 mile guarantee, and the other does not.
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Plenty do. However, have you read some of the manual excerpts reproduced here? Some of them are completely nonsensical. Others are contradictory. Further, if a manual has called for an SN/GF-5 5w30, a suitable lube can be anything from Supertech to Mobil 1 EP. One has a 15,000 mile guarantee, and the other does not.
The Regal sees about 70% city driving, around 800-900 miles a month, both in the (exasperatingly short) cool weather and in the (viciously long) hot. Beyond that, it's a DI engine, the first I've ever had. Some reports I've read here suggest that a shorter OCI can help prevent valve deposits, or lessen them. After the last of my CPO oil changes from the dealer on their synblend ACDelco dexos1 oil, I'm planning on going to QSUD at a 4500-5000 mile interval. After I do a UOA on the Quaker State, I'll see if I should adjust it up or down.
Three synthetic changes a year (at the outside) won't break me.
Three synthetic changes a year (at the outside) won't break me.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Plenty do. However, have you read some of the manual excerpts reproduced here? Some of them are completely nonsensical. Others are contradictory. Further, if a manual has called for an SN/GF-5 5w30, a suitable lube can be anything from Supertech to Mobil 1 EP. One has a 15,000 mile guarantee, and the other does not.
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
Does anyone read their owners manual anymore?
Plenty do. However, have you read some of the manual excerpts reproduced here? Some of them are completely nonsensical. Others are contradictory. Further, if a manual has called for an SN/GF-5 5w30, a suitable lube can be anything from Supertech to Mobil 1 EP. One has a 15,000 mile guarantee, and the other does not.
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
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There're enough sales year 'round to get a "5-quart gallon-jug" of ANY oil for $10 or less here in the US, so I just get 3-4 OCs in advance and when I'm down to one OC of oil I keep alert for the next sale and get another 2 or 3 OCs of oil...
....ANY brand-name 5w30 will do since I change oil every 6k miles/2x a year or so...
Since buying the Kitacamry 2 1/2 years ago it's been Pennzoil Platinum syn @ $2/qt...for the next 2 years it'll be Kendall syn-blend @ $1/qt....easy-peezy..
....ANY brand-name 5w30 will do since I change oil every 6k miles/2x a year or so...
Since buying the Kitacamry 2 1/2 years ago it's been Pennzoil Platinum syn @ $2/qt...for the next 2 years it'll be Kendall syn-blend @ $1/qt....easy-peezy..
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Except for when it's time to make a warranty claim. Good luck getting Mobil to repair your engine for free if it seizes and the dealership doesn't cover the repair because you went over the manufacturer's recommended interval.
Older cars need not apply, but I would still use the MFR recommendations regardless of age.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Except for when it's time to make a warranty claim. Good luck getting Mobil to repair your engine for free if it seizes and the dealership doesn't cover the repair because you went over the manufacturer's recommended interval.
Older cars need not apply, but I would still use the MFR recommendations regardless of age.
The point I'm making is that if you're running a new vehicle with very short OCIs, several of which still exist, that call for basic specifications, there's little reason to buy something premium. On the other hand, warranty claims on engines are rare, and the taxis we were running went 6,000 miles in the 3,000 mile days on conventional, and there were no warranty claims, much less warranty claims where OCI was an issue.
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Oh. Yeah then in that case if it calls for conventional oil then use conventional oil.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits. However, I still perceive a difference in terms of performance when using syn on my cars compared to dino - at least in my unscientific testing of Pennzoil Platinum vs yellow bottle.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
How difficult is it to choose one of those oils that meets the spec, and then change it when the OWNERS MANUAL says to? Just because some guy online ran a "guaranteed" oil for 15000 miles doesnt mean you should do it. If the car is new you'll just void the warranty trying to save a few dollars.
No, but if PYB or GTX or Mobil Super at about $3 a quart will do the same job as a synthetic for double the price in an application where it isn't required, why bother? Plenty of people do UOAs to reasonable extend OCIs when using premium lubricants, and there's nothing wrong with that.
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits. However, I still perceive a difference in terms of performance when using syn on my cars compared to dino - at least in my unscientific testing of Pennzoil Platinum vs yellow bottle.
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Syn is only a few dollars more if you DIY so I always use syn. Even in my lawn mower
I am running 5-6k miles OCI on -5 to -15F weather all winter long on full synthetic, not sure if it is a waste.
Currently on my 5K and don't feel like changing it lol
Currently on my 5K and don't feel like changing it lol
I go 8k kms in my 1.8ts running Mobil1 or Rotella T6, for the $35 a UOA costs I'd rather spend the $30 and do an oil change. In the summer I usually push it to 10k however with all the cold starts and excessive idling in the winter I always end up changing spring/fall.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Something is only a waste of money of the person paying the bills is not happy with what they are doing. Many folks "waste" a lot of money on a lot of things in their lives. Not using a full synthetic to its maximum potential hardly rates in the top 10. Only if someone is buying and using high volumes, like a commercial user with many vehicles, is it even worth worrying about. For the average user, no negative for the environment due to recycling, and no appreciable negative for the wallet compared to all of the other things in their lives that would be more cost effective to cut back on.
Even with recycling I feel there has to be some environmental impact. Not everyone does the right thing and recycles. Even on BITOG I've read people were spraying their used oil on the underbody of their car for rustproofing. How many oil filters and oil soaked rags also end up in the landfill? I suspect this is partly why Europe adopted extended drain intervals, there is less space in Europe to dump waste.
California has a web site where you can check your OCI for your car so you don't stupidly change it every 3k miles. They claim only about 70% of used oil is collected and recycled.
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/FindInterval/
Something is only a waste of money of the person paying the bills is not happy with what they are doing. Many folks "waste" a lot of money on a lot of things in their lives. Not using a full synthetic to its maximum potential hardly rates in the top 10. Only if someone is buying and using high volumes, like a commercial user with many vehicles, is it even worth worrying about. For the average user, no negative for the environment due to recycling, and no appreciable negative for the wallet compared to all of the other things in their lives that would be more cost effective to cut back on.
Even with recycling I feel there has to be some environmental impact. Not everyone does the right thing and recycles. Even on BITOG I've read people were spraying their used oil on the underbody of their car for rustproofing. How many oil filters and oil soaked rags also end up in the landfill? I suspect this is partly why Europe adopted extended drain intervals, there is less space in Europe to dump waste.
California has a web site where you can check your OCI for your car so you don't stupidly change it every 3k miles. They claim only about 70% of used oil is collected and recycled.
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/FindInterval/
OP, you go ahead and change your oil when YOU want to and don`t listen to the hype on any forum.
I also do 5k OCI`s bc all my vehicles are under severe duty, weather it`s idling, warm ups, cold weather, dust, towing, short trips as in 5-20 mile after warm up blah blah blah.
my vehicles spec 5k for severe service. could I push the oil more, sure, even the last UOA came back as 4.7 TBN. But either time or condition dictates the 5k intervals...
Now I may drop back to a shelf brand oil such as PU, Valv synth, or QS synth to save a few pennies.
It`s all good brotha!
I also do 5k OCI`s bc all my vehicles are under severe duty, weather it`s idling, warm ups, cold weather, dust, towing, short trips as in 5-20 mile after warm up blah blah blah.
my vehicles spec 5k for severe service. could I push the oil more, sure, even the last UOA came back as 4.7 TBN. But either time or condition dictates the 5k intervals...
Now I may drop back to a shelf brand oil such as PU, Valv synth, or QS synth to save a few pennies.
It`s all good brotha!
Originally Posted By: mozart
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits.
I don't think you're going to see any statistically significant fuel economy benefits in switching from a conventional to a synthetic in the same grade. You might get somewhere by going to a lighter grade or even going from a 5w30 to a 0w-30 (as in AFE 0w-30 or Petro-Canada Supreme Synthetic 0w-30, not GC). But, look at vanilla M1 5w30, with an HTHS 0.1 higher than most other 5w30 grades.
When following warranty severe service intervals in my G37, the PYB was absolutely fine. I can't see myself having magically saved any dollars by going to a synthetic 5w30, much less an extended drain 5w30, like M1 EP, Amsoil SS, or the high end Castrol stuff, at OEM OCIs.
As for fuel economy in general, I've already posted ages ago here, with error calculations, that the fuel economy in my G37 is the same, within the error bars, using 5w-40 as it was with 5w30. I know I'm burning more fuel, but outside of a lab or a much more controlled environment than the "real world," I'll never be able to adequately demonstrate it.
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits.
I don't think you're going to see any statistically significant fuel economy benefits in switching from a conventional to a synthetic in the same grade. You might get somewhere by going to a lighter grade or even going from a 5w30 to a 0w-30 (as in AFE 0w-30 or Petro-Canada Supreme Synthetic 0w-30, not GC). But, look at vanilla M1 5w30, with an HTHS 0.1 higher than most other 5w30 grades.
When following warranty severe service intervals in my G37, the PYB was absolutely fine. I can't see myself having magically saved any dollars by going to a synthetic 5w30, much less an extended drain 5w30, like M1 EP, Amsoil SS, or the high end Castrol stuff, at OEM OCIs.
As for fuel economy in general, I've already posted ages ago here, with error calculations, that the fuel economy in my G37 is the same, within the error bars, using 5w-40 as it was with 5w30. I know I'm burning more fuel, but outside of a lab or a much more controlled environment than the "real world," I'll never be able to adequately demonstrate it.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: mozart
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits.
I don't think you're going to see any statistically significant fuel economy benefits in switching from a conventional to a synthetic in the same grade. You might get somewhere by going to a lighter grade or even going from a 5w30 to a 0w-30 (as in AFE 0w-30 or Petro-Canada Supreme Synthetic 0w-30, not GC). But, look at vanilla M1 5w30, with an HTHS 0.1 higher than most other 5w30 grades.
When following warranty severe service intervals in my G37, the PYB was absolutely fine. I can't see myself having magically saved any dollars by going to a synthetic 5w30, much less an extended drain 5w30, like M1 EP, Amsoil SS, or the high end Castrol stuff, at OEM OCIs.
As for fuel economy in general, I've already posted ages ago here, with error calculations, that the fuel economy in my G37 is the same, within the error bars, using 5w-40 as it was with 5w30. I know I'm burning more fuel, but outside of a lab or a much more controlled environment than the "real world," I'll never be able to adequately demonstrate it.
I couldn't have said it any better Garak.
Originally Posted By: mozart
They may do the same job in terms of meeting spec, but do they do as good a job in terms of performance improvements/fuel economy? Perhaps the price differential in going to syn wipes out the potential fuel efficiency benefits.
I don't think you're going to see any statistically significant fuel economy benefits in switching from a conventional to a synthetic in the same grade. You might get somewhere by going to a lighter grade or even going from a 5w30 to a 0w-30 (as in AFE 0w-30 or Petro-Canada Supreme Synthetic 0w-30, not GC). But, look at vanilla M1 5w30, with an HTHS 0.1 higher than most other 5w30 grades.
When following warranty severe service intervals in my G37, the PYB was absolutely fine. I can't see myself having magically saved any dollars by going to a synthetic 5w30, much less an extended drain 5w30, like M1 EP, Amsoil SS, or the high end Castrol stuff, at OEM OCIs.
As for fuel economy in general, I've already posted ages ago here, with error calculations, that the fuel economy in my G37 is the same, within the error bars, using 5w-40 as it was with 5w30. I know I'm burning more fuel, but outside of a lab or a much more controlled environment than the "real world," I'll never be able to adequately demonstrate it.
I couldn't have said it any better Garak.
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