Fram Ultra XG2 (OG) C&P (9,584km)

OVERKILL

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This is the first Ultra off my 2020 SRT (#2) that I purchased in September of 2020. I changed out the FF and factory filter at 1,912Km.

This filter shows a bit of break-in debris in it and has been on the vehicle for 9,584km (5,955 miles).

This filter was purchased, as part of a set that I bought from Amazon. The filter that replaced it was one of the two Ultra's that FRAM sent me when I had a leaking one.

Pics:
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You can see a small chunk of metal debris in this one, it was shiny:
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_147b.jpg
 
When I took original the factory filter off my Mazda, a large metal shaving was stuck part-way through one of the inlet holes. It wasn't clogging anything, but held the ADBV open.
 
Thanks for the C&P.
The oil looks kind of dirty for just having almost 6K miles on it. How many miles are on the vehicle?
There are 11,496km on the vehicle (or was when the filter was removed) which is 7,143 miles. This is its second oil change.

It's a large bore 6.4L V8 tuned for performance. The HEMI's are pretty dirty engines, I suspect the 6.4L and 6.2L are worse than the 5.7L, particularly the 6.4L, because it has very large bores. This is the reason AMSOIL doesn't advise the EaO get used for extended drains in these applications.

As long as the oil keeps the contaminants in suspension and the internals clean, I'll be happy. This is likely why the OCI length is so short.

My M5 used to darken the oil (and fuel diluted like crazy) as well. The M1 0w-40 that came out of it was always pretty black, but the engine itself remained clean.
 
That chunk of metal was from you going hammer down a fair amount. :LOL:

There are actually a couple smaller ones that the camera didn't capture. Given that this is the engine's second oil change and the factory fill was dumped quite early, break-in material is expected. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get a high-end filter on it relatively soon, to catch any harmful particulate that might still be surfing around.
 
Wow that is dirty. I still have a 24k mile one in the shop from a new Ford and it looked great.

Agree these engines need a high end filter-oil combo.

Has the diesel filter look.
 
Wow that is dirty. I still have a 24k mile one in the shop from a new Ford and it looked great.

Agree these engines need a high end filter-oil combo.

Has the diesel filter look.
Be interesting to see how the M1 EP 0w-20 that comes out of my wife's RAM 1500 looks in comparison. The 5.7L has smaller bores and isn't as performance-tuned, so in theory, the oil shouldn't look as bad.

The SRT's have always had short intervals due to how they are tuned. I'm glad this has piqued some interest.
 
Be interesting to see how the M1 EP 0w-20 that comes out of my wife's RAM 1500 looks in comparison. The 5.7L has smaller bores and isn't as performance-tuned, so in theory, the oil shouldn't look as bad.

The SRT's have always had short intervals due to how they are tuned. I'm glad this has piqued some interest.
My 09 Challenger RT always came out pretty clean but it wasn't run hard. I suspect the Ram filter will look tons better.
 
Be interesting to see how the M1 EP 0w-20 that comes out of my wife's RAM 1500 looks in comparison. The 5.7L has smaller bores and isn't as performance-tuned, so in theory, the oil shouldn't look as bad.

The SRT's have always had short intervals due to how they are tuned. I'm glad this has piqued some interest.
I get it, but resent the six month regardless of mileage requirement. My Hellcat is stored in the winter months so I end up doing a 600 mile oc in the spring to meet the warranty requirement. I’ll do a cut and post in about a month. Should be about 2,000 miles.
 
I get it, but resent the six month regardless of mileage requirement. My Hellcat is stored in the winter months so I end up doing a 600 mile oc in the spring to meet the warranty requirement. I’ll do a cut and post in about a month. Should be about 2,000 miles.
This was a ~13 month OCI, that 6 month limit is insane, this vehicle is driven every day and I'm using a long drain Euro oil. I have an extremely good relationship with my dealership though (friends with the owner) so that's not advocacy for others to do the same.
 
There are actually a couple smaller ones that the camera didn't capture. Given that this is the engine's second oil change and the factory fill was dumped quite early, break-in material is expected. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get a high-end filter on it relatively soon, to catch any harmful particulate that might still be surfing around.


You know I was messing with you....

:LOL:

Though in all likelihood... I know you don't drive like Morgan Freeman in that movie Driving Ms. Daisy.
 
There are 11,496km on the vehicle (or was when the filter was removed) which is 7,143 miles. This is its second oil change.

It's a large bore 6.4L V8 tuned for performance. The HEMI's are pretty dirty engines, I suspect the 6.4L and 6.2L are worse than the 5.7L, particularly the 6.4L, because it has very large bores. This is the reason AMSOIL doesn't advise the EaO get used for extended drains in these applications.

As long as the oil keeps the contaminants in suspension and the internals clean, I'll be happy. This is likely why the OCI length is so short.

My M5 used to darken the oil (and fuel diluted like crazy) as well. The M1 0w-40 that came out of it was always pretty black, but the engine itself remained clean.
I never knew this. Well, had I ever been involved with building a Hemi engine I would have known.
Nothing against todays Hemi engines, but I have always thought that the TRUE/REAL Hemi engines were built from 1950-1971. The 426 being the KING OF THE HILL!
And, yes it's true, MOPAR/Chrysler still uses the same hemispherical cylinder head ("hemi-head") design for it's current Hemi engine equipped vehicles. Which I applaud very loudly for.
But, why is it so dirty? You state because of its big bore? You would think that with all of the history of the Hemi the engineers would have figured this out. Or, do they know and just "go with it?"
 
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I never knew this. Well, had I ever been involved with building a Hemi engine I would have known.
Nothing against todays Hemi engines, but I have always thought that the TRUE/REAL Hemi engines were built from 1950-1971. The 426 being the KING OF THE HILL!
And, yes it's true, MOPAR/Chrysler still uses the same hemispherical cylinder head ("hemi-head") design for it's current Hemi engine equipped vehicles. Which I applaud very loudly for.
But, why is it so dirty? You state because of its big bore? You would think that with all of the history of the Hemi the engineers would have figured this out. Or, do they know and and just "go with it?"

The current (modern) HEMI's don't really have hemispherical chambers, they are somewhat closer to pent roof. They had to add quench areas in the chambers because a hemispherical chamber has very poor manners at low engine speeds, resulting in incomplete combustion and really not fun to drive (low on power, poor response...etc).

This is why the "street" HEMI engines, like Ford's BOSS 429, had quench areas added to the sides of the chambers, to improve drivability and give the engine good street manners.

The modern HEMI has always needed "help" in running clean, that's why they have dual ignition (16 spark plugs). because the chamber design just doesn't lend itself, even with quench areas, to clean and complete combustion at lower engine speeds, the dual ignition, which is phased, fires twice in order to try and clean that up. It's actually an extremely old technique used on big bore engines (I've seen 30's vintage stuff with it).

So, the 6.4L, which has a 4.09" bore (the 5.7L has a 3.92" bore) will suffer a bit more from these characteristics. It's also higher compression (10.9:1) and tuned for performance so it will fuel dilute. You put all that together and you have an engine that's going to generate more carbonaceous material than your average small bore high efficiency 4-pot or even a small bore engine like a Modular. The fuel dilution means that some of that is invariably going to end up in the sump.

Of course the HEMI isn't alone in being "dirty". The LSx engine family was hit with the same TSB from AMSOIL for avoiding extended drains with the EaO filters because they can apparently do the same thing. Of course they don't need dual ignition to pass emissions requirements, so I expect they aren't quite as bad.

Whole article on the heads here:

But some pictures:

The early (non-VCT) 5.7L:
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This is the Eagle chamber (modern 5.7L, my wife's truck):
ccrp-1210-inside-the-g3-hemi-cylinder-head-09.jpg


You can see the considerable quench areas on each side, making it less round. The top picture with the head gasket really shows this well.


This is the 6.4L Apache chamber:
ccrp-1210-inside-the-g3-hemi-cylinder-head-15.jpg

More round (more hemispherical), less quench area. Means it is going to be dirtier running at low speeds. It also has absolutely huge valves for a stock engine, 2.14" intake, 1.65" exhaust (as noted in the article).
 
I have never seen a past, or current Hemi head. My forte was the SBC engine, and a few Ford 302/351W. I have always drooled over the 426 and BOSS 429. I used to tell everyone that I had Chevy Orange running thru my veins. Well, it's been since 2011 that I have built a SBC. I sure do miss it! :(
 
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