*Fram* making changes?

[UncleS2]

On the Neon board I frequent, a guy who claims to be an engineer for *Fram* has recently made some posts, after I advised the (mostly kids)there against Fram oil filters. After a little "weaseling"(cardboard endcaps don't hurt performance, perception problem only

yada yada), he did post that Fram was considering the use of steel or plastic endcaps.

Maybe the MiniMopar study, & us oil nuts in general, are beginning to have an effect? I'll wait until I see it. Even if they do change, cardboard endcaps will remain in the pipeline for a long time.

Here's a link, it'll take a little reading & scrolling. Admins, if this is a no-no, do your duty!

Thanks Stuart, you are a great, respectful member. I deleted the link, but copied and pasted the info for everyone to see. Have a good weekend, Joe

" You want an Anti-Drain Gasket in your filter! They prevent dry starts! But all brands have them.

I've worked at Fram filter testing/engineering headquarters for two years as an engineer. I've seen plenty of performance data on all the major filter brands. Unless you plan on racing (and I mean real racing, not just a few weekends of autoXing/dragging) or driving way over the recommended change intervals, basically any filter is just fine. Fram filters perform just as well or better than the other brands. Why does everyone think Fram is so horrible??
If you are worried, Fram makes a higher capacity filter as well...the X2 model. 7k change interval. But regular oil will break down before you hit 7k.

Fram standard filter for 95-99 Neon is a PH3614
X2 model is a XG3614

p.s. K&N filters are a waste of money. Trust me, I've seen the test data.

p.p.s. I'm not a die hard Fram fan, I'm just defending Fram against untrue accusations.

Chris"

[ August 08, 2003, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: joee12 ]

 

[Mystic]

I wish that FRAM would make a few changes. Plastic endcaps may be even better than steel, as long as you use a plastic that can take high temperatures. FRAM needs to improve their bypass valves, also, in my opinion. And a quality all temperature anti-drainback valve would be nice. If FRAM started making a good oil filter I would buy it-FRAM used to be my brand of oil filter and was the brand I used for a long time.

 

[noway]

Fram filters have been crappy for as long as I know. In '76 I was using them in my '70 Javelin, and had one totally collapse. Sucked the sides of the filter right in like a smashed pepsi can.

I've heard of fram filters losing there filter media also. Try sucking that through your engine.

 

[pscholte]

I get suspicious when someone, like this Fram engineer, makes a claim ("K&N filters are a waste of money") and then supports it with, "Trust me, I've seen the test data."

[ August 08, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
I get suspicious when someone, like this Fram engineer, makes a claim ("K&N filters are a waste of money") and then supports it with, "Trust me, I've seen the test data."

---

Exactly right. And of course the "test data" is always secret and propietary so we won't get to see it.

Consider the source and who the person is and if they might have something to gain or lose...

 

[UncleS2]

Excellent point. Nothing sets up my red flags more than those 2 little words: "Trust Me!".

Here's the part I was referring to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
. Why does everyone think Fram is so horrible??

Cardboard endcaps. Repeat, those @#$%&* cardboard endcaps. Absolutely *Nothing* untrue about that. That's the #1 reason I avoid them, & advise others to avoid them. Cut open an orange-box Fram, & the corresponding WalMart SuperTech filter, & tell me which looks better made to you. It's just that simple. To stick with the small recomended Neon sizes, thats PH-3614 for the Fram, ST-3614 for the SuperTech. Fram sales come from advertising & aggressive marketing, pure & simple- not from quality. No one likes to admit that they're involved in making junk.

*Guess who wrote & posted the above?*

*His reply*
The cardboard end discs don't affect the performance. The downside to them is perception, which you verified with your post. People don't like seeing that cardboard when other brands use metal. Fram does it because they're cheaper to manufacture, and they get knocked down for it. We're looking into metal (or maybe plastic) end discs now for the exact reasons you stated above.

Chris

[ August 09, 2003, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Stuart Hughes ]

 

[Propflux01]

Did you by chance refer him and his fellow buddy engineers to BITOG, and let him type "FRAM" in the 'search' box??!! I think that alone would shut him up!

 

[edwardh1]

and what is bitog?

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by edwardh1:
and what is bitog?

---

Bob Is The Oil Guy

 

[Jim Spahr]

Fram needs to go to steel end caps ASAP. This especially worries me when I see the trend toward longer oil change intervals of 7,500, 9000, and even higher. The chances of a Fram filter having the card board ends collapsing increase tremendously with the longer intervals. You may get by at 3K but at 7,500+ the odds are not in Frams favor. Fram needs to divert a little of their big ad campaign to providing steel end caps and other internal aprts needed for a quality filter.

 

[UncleS2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tim H.:
Did you by chance refer him and his fellow buddy engineers to BITOG, and let him type "FRAM" in the 'search' box??!! I think that alone would shut him up!

---

No, I didn't do that, Tim- but I will now! Thanks for the great idea!

 

[crashz]

What angers me is that Fram charges a premium price. They get $4.50 at Walmart for the equivalent Motorcraft FL-400 (which goes for $2.77).

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by crashz:
What angers me is that Fram charges a premium price. They get $4.50 at Walmart for the equivalent Motorcraft FL-400 (which goes for $2.77).

---

Actually it's not an equivalent, it's an inferior replacement...

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
The thing I hate about Frams, is their horrendous bypass valve/thingy. It's not even really a valve, just a plastic poppet with retainor clips that are supposed to stay retained to the cardboard endcap. It's so cheap and ineffective. No Frams for me, EVER.

---

But it HAS to be good - Millions are sold each year!!!.....uh, yea...

 

[pscholte]

Guys,

I'm in the "won't-use-a-Fram camp" with the rest (or at least many) of you. What concerns me as I tour the local auto parts houses (includes Wal-mart) is the growing sea of orange I see on the shelves...strongly support your favorite filter or the expanding Fram space at the stores may bump it right out the door!

 

[Propflux01]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pscholte:
Guys,

I'm in the "won't-use-a-Fram camp" with the rest (or at least many) of you. What concerns me as I tour the local auto parts houses (includes Wal-mart) is the growing sea of orange I see on the shelves...strongly support your favorite filter or the expanding Fram space at the stores may bump it right out the door!

---

This is so true, but how do you get "Average Joe" to see the truth? Should I start leaving a bunch of business cards with nothing but "www.bobistheoilguy.com" taped to all the FRAM filters in the local Walmart? ( boy, could you imagine??!!)

 

[pscholte]

Tim H.,

You could always take the subtle approach and walk up and down the aisles with a sandwich sign that has a Fram filter inside the classic red circle with the line through it!

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stuart Hughes:
Excellent point. Nothing sets up my red flags more than those 2 little words: "Trust Me!".

---

The one that sets off my BS detector is "Trust me, I'm a CLS."

 

[Drew99GT]

The thing I hate about Frams, is their horrendous bypass valve/thingy. It's not even really a valve, just a plastic poppet with retainor clips that are supposed to stay retained to the cardboard endcap. It's so cheap and ineffective. No Frams for me, EVER.