Fram FE3614 C&P 2.6k mi

I know what I saw and I dam sure ain’t blind. Show me how that filter media was gonna collapse. You can’t. I’ve cut tons of ultras and other filters. Making assumptions and saying “media looks to be coming apart without seeing media layer out is just insane.
Just for the sake of argument (because I agree that it is not on the verge of imploding), my Camry specs for XX4386 and the 3614 is wider than that filter. Could that have anything to do with that slight concavity? I believe the bypass valve on the 3614 is set for a lower psi than the 4386 as well, maybe by 4 psi or so.

I ask questions here even if they are dumb because if you assume that you know everything then you never learn anything.
 
Just for the sake of argument (because I agree that it is not on the verge of imploding), my Camry specs for XX4386 and the 3614 is wider than that filter. Could that have anything to do with that slight concavity? I believe the bypass valve on the 3614 is set for a lower psi than the 4386 as well, maybe by 4 psi or so.

I ask questions here even if they are dumb because if you assume that you know everything then you never learn anything.
Sirius dude just ran his mouth for effect and to get a rise out of the board. He’s permanently on ignore.

Your cleaning tests, etc are valuable learning tools and I respect your trials and results sir. Can’t and won’t say same for siriusdude ever.
 
Sirius dude just ran his mouth for effect and to get a rise out of the board. He’s permanently on ignore.

Your cleaning tests, etc are valuable learning tools and I respect your trials and results sir. Can’t and won’t say same for siriusdude ever.

I wasn't running my mouth. You started in. It's obvious that the filter media is narrower toward the center than the caps. I think this is collapsed idk what you call it. So what if the wire backing is keeping it together. It indicates either high dP from clogged media, or it's that the media isn't up to the task. Can't be anything else. Neither is a good thing.

It's something to point out. Pick a different filter or decrease interval until it clears up. Idk why you're getting an attitude about it.

At least I can explain myself. You say it's fine without any reasoning then want to make it a personal. "Doing its job." Based on what, your calibrated can opener?
 
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It's obvious that the filter media is narrower toward the center than the caps. I think this is collapsed idk what you call it. So what if the wire backing is keeping it together. It indicates either high dP from clogged media, or it's that the media isn't up to the task.
Every filter has some dP even when new, and if was run in very cold climates, the dP with thick cold oil can get pretty high even on a new filter - like up to bypass valve PSI level of dP. The slight "bow-in" could just be from normal dP, and it bowed in until the inside pleats hit the center tube. There was probably a bit of an air gap in that area. But the bow-in can't be necessarily be concluded because it's all clogged up. Can get high dP even with a clean filter if the conditions are right. And if it was loaded somewhat (not fully loaded), then it would take less oil flow to get the dP to bypass PSI level.
 
Every filter has some dP even when new, and if was run in very cold climates, the dP with thick cold oil can get pretty high even on a new filter - like up to bypass valve PSI level of dP. The slight "bow-in" could just be from normal dP, and it bowed in until the inside pleats hit the center tube. There was probably a bit of an air gap in that area. But the bow-in can't be necessarily be concluded because it's all clogged up. Can get high dP even with a clean filter if the conditions are right. And if it was loaded somewhat (not fully loaded), then it would take less oil flow to get the dP to bypass PSI level.

I understand, but when a filter from another manufacturer doesn't do that why not switch.

If the filter media is flexed it's been weakened. Doesn't start off new looking like that. Who's to say that it hasn't been shedding filter fibers into the clean side the whole time? That's the thing you don't know for sure, but there's a risk.

My point is when you see something like this it should give pause for thought. That's why I pointed it out.
 
Try this sometime. Take some filter media and flex it with your fingers. It makes a sound. That sound is fibers breaking. Now what about if you're flexing enough to permanently deform it? If you hold it up to the light and really flex you can see pieces flying off like dust.
 
I understand, but when a filter from another manufacturer doesn't do that why not switch.
That's a side discussion, not related to why the media bowed in a little bit.

If the filter media is flexed it's been weakened. Doesn't start off new looking like that. Who's to say that it hasn't been shedding filter fibers into the clean side the whole time? That's the thing you don't know for sure, but there's a risk.
The wire-backing could flex/bend too with enough dP. OP said it as ran over the winter months (from October 9, 2023 to March 3, 2024), and he's in a cold climate (Maryland, USA), so that filter most likely saw some pretty high dP just from very cold oil at start-ups. And yes, he was running some engine cleaning exercise, so it probably was loaded more than a normal 2,639 mile OCI would be.

If there is any air gap space between the center tube and pleat edges, the media can "bow in" from the dP. It doesn't mean the filter was over loaded with debris. The dP could have gotten up to the bypass valve PSI setting in normal cold winter use.

My point is when you see something like this it should give pause for thought. That's why I pointed it out.
And there can be more than one factor causing what you're seeing.
 
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Try this sometime. Take some filter media and flex it with your fingers. It makes a sound. That sound is fibers breaking. Now what about if you're flexing enough to permanently deform it? If you hold it up to the light and really flex you can see pieces flying off like dust.
Not true in every case. The flexibility and strength of media varies all over the place. The media in the Endurance is flexible enough to need wire backing. Doesn't mean it's going to fail or tear if it bends some.
 
This one looks to have a little bit of bow-in too. Many Endurance C&Ps here, so look around for similar. I think before use, there's some air gap between the center tube and inside pleat edges. So the dP during use can therefore bow-in the media a little bit.

 
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This one looks to have a little bit of bow-in too. Many Endurance C&Ps here, so look around for similar. I think before use, there's some air gap between the center tube and inside pleat edges. So the dP during use can therefore bow-in the media a little bit.

See that's after 12k. OP's was not even 3k. The filter is also taller, which means less dP will cause more strain. Still, it's in better shape than OP's overall.

Filter can't last forever. They start to break down eventually. If it's showing signs at 3k then that's not good imo. 12k is too high on that. 3k is too high on OP's, most likely due to the cleaning treatment.

When I see a filter like that it's either change brands or decrease the interval. That's my advice. I didn't say it to hurt anyone's feelings. I said it because I think it's the right thing for OP to do.
 
See that's after 12k. OP's was not even 3k. The filter is also taller, which means less dP will cause more strain. Still, it's in better shape than OP's overall.

Filter can't last forever. They start to break down eventually. If it's showing signs at 3k then that's not good imo. 12k is too high on that. 3k is too high on OP's, most likely due to the cleaning treatment.

When I see a filter like that it's either change brands or decrease the interval. That's my advice. I didn't say it to hurt anyone's feelings. I said it because I think it's the right thing for OP to do.
Yes, the OP's filter was loaded more than normal for that relatively short OCI due to running engine cleaning products. Just because the pleats flexed inward doesn't mean the filter is over-loaded. If an engine was revved pretty high with cold thick oil, the dP PSI could hit bypass valve level, even with a new filter. Only way to know how loaded it is, and the effect on the dP vs flow, would be to flow bench it.

The other OCI was longer, but the Endurance is rated for longer OCIs. If there was no free space between the center tube and inside edges of the pleats, then they wouldn't flex inward because they'd have no place to move. The more air gap between the center tube an inner pleat edges, the more room the media has to bow inward from dP.
 
Every filter has some dP even when new, and if was run in very cold climates, the dP with thick cold oil can get pretty high even on a new filter - like up to bypass valve PSI level of dP. The slight "bow-in" could just be from normal dP, and it bowed in until the inside pleats hit the center tube. There was probably a bit of an air gap in that area. But the bow-in can't be necessarily be concluded because it's all clogged up. Can get high dP even with a clean filter if the conditions are right. And if it was loaded somewhat (not fully loaded), then it would take less oil flow to get the dP to bypass PSI level.
What a stupid reply with still no answer to the question. It’s called a “filter cutter” for crying out loud. I can care less about you running your mouth calling someone blind which I take serious offense to. You never cut a filter apart and did what I and other members have done. Just ASSume a filter media is failing. What a total joker.
I wasn't running my mouth. You started in. It's obvious that the filter media is narrower toward the center than the caps. I think this is collapsed idk what you call it. So what if the wire backing is keeping it together. It indicates either high dP from clogged media, or it's that the media isn't up to the task. Can't be anything else. Neither is a good thing.

It's something to point out. Pick a different filter or decrease interval until it clears up. Idk why you're getting an attitude about it.

At least I can explain myself. You say it's fine without any reasoning then want to make it a personal. "Doing its job." Based on what, your calibrated can opener?
yeah you were. Told me fly out I’m blind. I’ve never saw a wire backed media filter “collapse”. Ya never cut apart a filter either. Just another keyboard warrior picking on folks.

I’d seriously stop blabbing 💩💩💩💩and start cutting filters apart and then making opinions. Instead of telling someone they are blind. That’s pretty darn offensive and ignorant and disrespectful. The biggest thing is you have zero proof for your accusations and collapsing media theory. I ran a Donaldson thru winter and media showed no signs of collapse. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
 
Yes, the OP's filter was loaded more than normal for that relatively short OCI due to running engine cleaning products. Just because the pleats flexed inward doesn't mean the filter is over-loaded. If an engine was revved pretty high with cold thick oil, the dP PSI could hit bypass valve level, even with a new filter. Only way to know how loaded it is, and the effect on the dP vs flow, would be to flow bench it.

The other OCI was longer, but the Endurance is rated for longer OCIs. If there was no free space between the center tube and inside edges of the pleats, then they wouldn't flex inward because they'd have no place to move. The more air gap between the center tube an inner pleat edges, the more room the media has to bow inward from dP.
All true. Could've been in bypass or maybe not. Filter flex is normal or it's a sign of other problems. You're right hard to say for sure without other tools. Given that what OP sees is what we see it's pretty limited info to drill down. Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution.
 
What a stupid reply with still no answer to the question. It’s called a “filter cutter” for crying out loud. I can care less about you running your mouth calling someone blind which I take serious offense to. You never cut a filter apart and did what I and other members have done. Just ASSume a filter media is failing. What a total joker.

yeah you were. Told me fly out I’m blind. I’ve never saw a wire backed media filter “collapse”. Ya never cut apart a filter either. Just another keyboard warrior picking on folks.

I’d seriously stop blabbing 💩💩💩💩and start cutting filters apart and then making opinions. Instead of telling someone they are blind. That’s pretty darn offensive and ignorant and disrespectful. The biggest thing is you have zero proof for your accusations and collapsing media theory. I ran a Donaldson thru winter and media showed no signs of collapse. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

I've cut open filters. Just did mine last tues. It's not a hard thing to do, but I can see why you pride yourself on it. One bent pleat and the cap glue separated pretty easily had me annoyed. Looked nothing like what OP posted. More like the one I referenced.

You called me crazy for stating my opinion then get mad when I respond in kind. What a boomer perspective. I'm the one who should be offended, but I'm not.

Thought I was on ignore???
 
All true. Could've been in bypass or maybe not. Filter flex is normal or it's a sign of other problems. You're right hard to say for sure without other tools. Given that what OP sees is what we see it's pretty limited info to drill down. Nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution.
I'd like to see how much air gap is between the center tube and inner pleat edges on a new Endurance. It might even vary by filter model number. The larger the air gap, the more room for the media to bow inward from dP.

Yes, filter media flex happens with the dP caused by oil flow. Wire backed media never fails from the dP. Non-wire backed media that tears easily and has wide pleat spacing can cause the pleat to bend sideways and tear at the root of the pleats. Seen that failure happen many times in C&Ps posted here over the years.
 
I'd like to see how much air gap is between the center tube and inner pleat edges on a new Endurance. It might even vary by filter model number. The larger the air gap, the more room for the media to bow inward from dP.

Yes, filter media flex happens with the dP caused by oil flow. Wire backed media never fails from the dP. Non-wire backed media that tears easily and has wide pleat spacing can cause the pleat to bend sideways and tear at the root of the pleats. Seen that failure happen many times in C&Ps posted here over the years.

Well you make a good point. What's the air gap even for? They could make them without. I think it's there so that the filter media stays suspended away and doesn't abrade due to vibration and pressure pulses.

So if the filter media is collapsing to the point of need in support then perhaps that's non-ideal.
 
Well you make a good point. What's the air gap even for? They could make them without. I think it's there so that the filter media stays suspended away and doesn't abrade due to vibration and pressure pulses.

So if the filter media is collapsing to the point of need in support then perhaps that's non-ideal.
Every spin-on filter has some kind of air gap between the center tube and media cartridge, and it probably varies between filters. Could be some Endurance models have more air gap than others. The media couldn't bow in like that unless there was room for it to move inward towards the center tube. If there was say a 1/4 inch of air gap (extreme example), the media could bow in that much if the dP was high enough. The Endurance uses a metal mesh backing, not a plastic/nylon mesh like some filters. With the metal wire backing on the media, it could be that once it bows inward the metal wire mesh deforms some, and that keeps the pleats bowed in.

Also, wire or nylon backed media would have that backing as a protective layer keeping the media from rubbing and abrading/wearing on the center tube.
 
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I've cut open filters. Just did mine last tues. It's not a hard thing to do, but I can see why you pride yourself on it. One bent pleat and the cap glue separated pretty easily had me annoyed. Looked nothing like what OP posted. More like the one I referenced.

You called me crazy for stating my opinion then get mad when I respond in kind. What a boomer perspective. I'm the one who should be offended, but I'm not.

Thought I was on ignore???
I just can’t believe when ya look at filter
Media you can easily say it’s starting to collapse.
 
I couldn’t help myself and curiosity got to me as I had an Endurance already cut open on hand.

There is no gap between the media and center tube. The synthetic media separated from the backing has absolutely no rigidity as we knew. But with the backing I could not collapse the media towards the center tube at all. It’s very strong.

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I couldn’t help myself and curiosity got to me as I had an Endurance already cut open on hand.

There is no gap between the media and center tube. The synthetic media separated from the backing has absolutely no rigidity as we knew. But with the backing I could not collapse the media towards the center tube at all. It’s very strong.

View attachment 278124
How much was the media disturbed before that 1st photo was taken? There is a big gap on the right side. Also, hard to say what every filter model in the Endurance line has for a gap between the center tube and media cartridge without inspecting may models. It could vary between models for some reason. Based on the manufacturing QA is these days, it might even vary between filters of the same model depending on manufacturing variances.
 
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