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Four API CK-4 Diesel Engine Oil Results
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Some idiot is confused again.... So assuming I'm not an idiot and reading it correctly the CK-4/SN 15w40 has 1200ppm zddp and the older CJ-4 has less at 1000ppm.
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There is no such thing as a CJ-4/SN it's CJ-4/SM
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Originally Posted By: rummy
Good Observation! I think they dropped the ball on that one.
Yeah. This is what makes me worry is if the people who engineered these oil specs even know what they're doing.
Good Observation! I think they dropped the ball on that one.
Yeah. This is what makes me worry is if the people who engineered these oil specs even know what they're doing.
Petroleum Trends International made the comparison Table. Looks like they passed the info off to an intern and said "make me a table for a powerpoint presentation" the intern, just wants to go home so does what the boss told them to do... a table without really reading into the small details. like the one you pointed out on CJ-4/SM not SN
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It is possible that the 15w40 grade with the CK-4 label is exempt from the zddp levels, which I've heard but haven't really looked into it much. The chart shows the thinner 30 weight grades that soley have API-SN to have lower zddp levels compared the oil with the CK-4/SN
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Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
It is possible that the 15w40 grade with the CK-4 label is exempt from the zddp levels, which I've heard but haven't really looked into it much. The chart shows the thinner 30 weight grades that soley have API-SN to have lower zddp levels compared the oil with the CK-4/SN
That's it-the 40 weight oils are exempt from the ZDDP limitations, they routinely have up to 1200 PPM. Now, how using that oil with a DPF will work out-that's the $64,000 question.
It is possible that the 15w40 grade with the CK-4 label is exempt from the zddp levels, which I've heard but haven't really looked into it much. The chart shows the thinner 30 weight grades that soley have API-SN to have lower zddp levels compared the oil with the CK-4/SN
That's it-the 40 weight oils are exempt from the ZDDP limitations, they routinely have up to 1200 PPM. Now, how using that oil with a DPF will work out-that's the $64,000 question.
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
It is possible that the 15w40 grade with the CK-4 label is exempt from the zddp levels, which I've heard but haven't really looked into it much. The chart shows the thinner 30 weight grades that soley have API-SN to have lower zddp levels compared the oil with the CK-4/SN
That's it-the 40 weight oils are exempt from the ZDDP limitations, they routinely have up to 1200 PPM. Now, how using that oil with a DPF will work out-that's the $64,000 question.
I've seen UOA of CJ-4 oils showing 14XX or more ppm, the dpf will be just fine. I swear it's like the oil companies make oil just to satisfy the epa then go and make it however they want after that. Can you imagine the epa showing up at an oil processing plant and saying ummmm.... we're here to check your ZDDP levels sir.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
It is possible that the 15w40 grade with the CK-4 label is exempt from the zddp levels, which I've heard but haven't really looked into it much. The chart shows the thinner 30 weight grades that soley have API-SN to have lower zddp levels compared the oil with the CK-4/SN
That's it-the 40 weight oils are exempt from the ZDDP limitations, they routinely have up to 1200 PPM. Now, how using that oil with a DPF will work out-that's the $64,000 question.
I've seen UOA of CJ-4 oils showing 14XX or more ppm, the dpf will be just fine. I swear it's like the oil companies make oil just to satisfy the epa then go and make it however they want after that. Can you imagine the epa showing up at an oil processing plant and saying ummmm.... we're here to check your ZDDP levels sir.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
There is no such thing as a CJ-4/SN it's CJ-4/SM
Mobil delvac le 5w30 didn't get the: There is no cj-4/sn memo still one of the top oil
There is no such thing as a CJ-4/SN it's CJ-4/SM
Mobil delvac le 5w30 didn't get the: There is no cj-4/sn memo still one of the top oil
By the way Mobil delvac le 5w30 likely is very close to be ck/sn ready as it is (it's cj-4/sn actual formula)
Ck costed oil maker a billion . So oil maker didn't just number 3 on the oi an call it a day
Originally Posted By: njohnson
So, looking at the results, Delo and Delvac have lowered zinc and phosphorous levels in the new CK-4 oil. The Rotella and Valvoline are a little higher for now.
Rotella and Premium Blue, by PQIA tests, are the ones from this group that meet Ford diesel specs for phosphorous. Shell went with Boron, Valvoline went with Moly. I still like my Valvoline.
So, looking at the results, Delo and Delvac have lowered zinc and phosphorous levels in the new CK-4 oil. The Rotella and Valvoline are a little higher for now.
Rotella and Premium Blue, by PQIA tests, are the ones from this group that meet Ford diesel specs for phosphorous. Shell went with Boron, Valvoline went with Moly. I still like my Valvoline.
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I think it is interesting that Mobil lowered the zinc and phosphorous in the Delvac 1300 Super, which is their heavy duty commercial oil and meets various heavy duty specs and has OEM approvals, while the TDT 5W-40 has 1300 zinc and 1100 phos. I would have thought it would be the other way around, the Delvac having the higher amounts, and the TDT being lower.
Originally Posted By: rummy
Results on Four Diesel Oils (April 24, 2017)
Ugh, the only decent one is the Rotella, still has a healthy dose of Ca and Zn, Ph levels above 1100ppm.
Chevron Delo and Mobil Delvac specs look like SN grade passenger car oil.
Pathetic and totally politically driven like CFL light bulbs and low flow toilets.
Results on Four Diesel Oils (April 24, 2017)
Ugh, the only decent one is the Rotella, still has a healthy dose of Ca and Zn, Ph levels above 1100ppm.
Chevron Delo and Mobil Delvac specs look like SN grade passenger car oil.
Pathetic and totally politically driven like CFL light bulbs and low flow toilets.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
There is no such thing as a CJ-4/SN it's CJ-4/SM
Yes, there is. As yvon_la pointed out, Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, because it was introduced here after the SN rollout but before the CK-4 rollout. See here for reference.
njohnson: I suspect that phosphorus was reduced in the Mobil 15w-40 (but not TDT) because the SN stuck with the 10w-30, and they just kept the additive package roughly the same across the board in the Delvac 1300 Super product line.
Rock_Hudstone: What politics were involved? The API isn't a government organization. OEMs and oil companies certainly have concerns over emissions equipment, but that's hardly politics. They get a set of engineering problems they must address, and they address them as needed, within a cost regime, too.
There is no such thing as a CJ-4/SN it's CJ-4/SM
Yes, there is. As yvon_la pointed out, Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, because it was introduced here after the SN rollout but before the CK-4 rollout. See here for reference.
njohnson: I suspect that phosphorus was reduced in the Mobil 15w-40 (but not TDT) because the SN stuck with the 10w-30, and they just kept the additive package roughly the same across the board in the Delvac 1300 Super product line.
Rock_Hudstone: What politics were involved? The API isn't a government organization. OEMs and oil companies certainly have concerns over emissions equipment, but that's hardly politics. They get a set of engineering problems they must address, and they address them as needed, within a cost regime, too.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
[/quote]Rock_Hudstone: What politics were involved? The API isn't a government organization. OEMs and oil companies certainly have concerns over emissions equipment, but that's hardly politics.
Here in the US the EPA is a government bureaucracy that mandates emission standards vehicle manufactures must comply with, or else, just ask Volkswagon what can happen.
The API and oil companies get roped into this mess having to develop motor oils that won't negatively effect the equipment necessary to meet ever increasing EPA emission mandates.
[/quote]Rock_Hudstone: What politics were involved? The API isn't a government organization. OEMs and oil companies certainly have concerns over emissions equipment, but that's hardly politics.
Here in the US the EPA is a government bureaucracy that mandates emission standards vehicle manufactures must comply with, or else, just ask Volkswagon what can happen.
The API and oil companies get roped into this mess having to develop motor oils that won't negatively effect the equipment necessary to meet ever increasing EPA emission mandates.
Sn by it self isnt too bad . Car oil now a day is at sn-rc
That's prob the Sn most here are sketish about. I don't think we ll ever see a ck/sn-rc oil rofl
That's prob the Sn most here are sketish about. I don't think we ll ever see a ck/sn-rc oil rofl
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
The API and oil companies get roped into this mess having to develop motor oils that won't negatively effect the equipment necessary to meet ever increasing EPA emission mandates.
Of course, they get roped into it, but that's just day to day life. But, blaming politics is about as helpful as blaming "bean counters" because ZDDP dropped. They obviously must be saving money. But, the API regime isn't mandatory. You can choose whatever ACEA specs you like, uncertified oils from the majors, which do exist, or just buy Red Line.
It's also interesting to note that this low phosphorus Delvac 15w-40 is on Ford's latest approved list.
The API and oil companies get roped into this mess having to develop motor oils that won't negatively effect the equipment necessary to meet ever increasing EPA emission mandates.
Of course, they get roped into it, but that's just day to day life. But, blaming politics is about as helpful as blaming "bean counters" because ZDDP dropped. They obviously must be saving money. But, the API regime isn't mandatory. You can choose whatever ACEA specs you like, uncertified oils from the majors, which do exist, or just buy Red Line.
It's also interesting to note that this low phosphorus Delvac 15w-40 is on Ford's latest approved list.
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