Forgotten Science ?

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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: badtlc
I don't get why people are so opposed to aliens. Logic, reason, etc. all point to it.

Anything is possible, of course. However, some of the proponents are a tad over the top. And I wish these people and their fans would stop calling them "theorists."

They're not theorists. A theory is testable. Their assertions are wild speculation at best, and they have not proposed a way to test those assertions. Therefore, they are not theorists.


Theories or not, all of mankind's history on planet Earth keeps referencing it and pointing to it. You almost have to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs to ignore it, let alone just admitting it is a mere possibility.
 
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Sounds just like Amsoil. Great products with a few crazed salespeople!

I agree the tremendous amount of evidence is very hard to ignore. Given the sheer numbers it is difficult to discount the visitation of earth by others...
 
Ancient Aliens show is a farce. Yes, it is presented in a way that will make you stop and think that all they're saying might be true, but it has been proven time and time again that they bend, twist, omit or simply lie about certain facts just to make their "theories" that much more believable.

Just go on youtube and search for "Ancient Aliens debunked" or something like that. There is a great video that is FEW HOURS long and it goes through most of their claims and explains in great detail all that is wrong with them. They guy even provides a full list of references for his claims.

Things that stood out in my mind in that video were about various constructions that were supposedly done by aliens. For one such site in South America (I forget the name) the Ancient Aliens show makes claims that the rock used was granite, not found in the vicinity of the site and that the cuts were done so precisely that only Aliens could've done it.
Well, the guy debunking Ancient Aliens points out to several sources that clearly say the rocks used WERE NOT granite, but locally found material. Also, the site was littered with all kinds of tools and equipment left behind during the build, as well as many pieces left in several finish stages, clearly showing chisel marks on them. Ancient Alien show conveniently never mentions these little facts
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In any case, I would highly recommend that great youtube video debunking Ancient Aliens show.
 
EVERYTHING can be-debunked....and some things that we watch, can be debunked. However, you can't escape that notion that even if some things are obviously wrong, not ALL things are. That's what opens the minds. There is just no way every single piece of evidence that the show introduces can be wrong. There just too much out there. Pyramids alone....the similarity in building styles around the world is just not a coincidence...I mean seriously. The pricise measurements......but "stone age man" couldn't read or write.... Florida Gables....
 
Another common misconception is that those in the past had no skills, nor technology. Which is grossly inaccurate. We may be able to do things a bit better or faster today but that does not mean the tasks could not have been accomplished earlier.

People in the past could do a lot. Sure they didn't have lasers or whatnot but they were capable. Thinking they could not do something is a popular fallacy.

Besides, it isn't "stone age man" we are talking about usually. The ages in question were quite able to read and write.

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
EVERYTHING can be-debunked....and some things that we watch, can be debunked. However, you can't escape that notion that even if some things are obviously wrong, not ALL things are. That's what opens the minds. There is just no way every single piece of evidence that the show introduces can be wrong. There just too much out there. Pyramids alone....the similarity in building styles around the world is just not a coincidence...I mean seriously. The precise measurements......but "stone age man" couldn't read or write.... Florida Gables....
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
EVERYTHING can be-debunked....and some things that we watch, can be debunked. However, you can't escape that notion that even if some things are obviously wrong, not ALL things are. That's what opens the minds. There is just no way every single piece of evidence that the show introduces can be wrong. There just too much out there. Pyramids alone....the similarity in building styles around the world is just not a coincidence...I mean seriously. The pricise measurements......but "stone age man" couldn't read or write.... Florida Gables....


You would be surprised how precise a weight attached to a string, a simple stick with a standard measure of length and a bucket of water can be. These are not the tools that can be debunked because there is actual evidence of them being used. How on earth are you gonna debunk them?
And that's precisely what this show tries to exploit, our total ignorance of how things are built or were built. If you can imagine what the above examples can be used for, then you will understand, if not then I can see how you would believe in those claims.
 
I guess precise line up with Orion's belt is done with basic tools...come on guys!!! You can't honestly tell me that EVERYTHING, not only that show but others as well, we look at awe and wonder, has an elementary math explanation? Melted rocks, precision alignments that we can't even replicate today, weights we can't even move today, Nazca lines, the unexplained structures, the mysterious rituals...etc. etc. some of that can't be explained. I'm not saying everything is right...the Manna machine was a little out there but some things, there isn't just any good explaination.
 
Can you give me some examples of the precision alignments that we can't replicate today? I have a hard time believing that in an age where we produce semiconductors with gates measured in μm that what you speak of is actually true.
 
There isn't one. People like to say we can't go to the moon today, but that really is saying we chose not to do so. It's not that we can't, it's that we won't.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Can you give me some examples of the precision alignments that we can't replicate today? I have a hard time believing that in an age where we produce semiconductors with gates measured in μm that what you speak of is actually true.
 
Huge megolithic stones that weigh over 300 tons for one, perfectly fitted.. quarried and moved..I don't think we could even lift one today, let alone 100's of them. Same with the pyramids on the outside and inside. Perfectly flat. What about Machu Pichu? Puma Pinchu (sp???) Even throw in the Maya calender...sure the world didn't get sucked into the Milky Way galaxy as some predicted...but you tell me how that calender is very accurate with their basic, to say the least, understanding of mathematics. We've only know now they are accurate because of our technology (computers).
 
Considering that some of the dumbest people in modern society are the current occupants of the so called "Cradle of Civilization" region, the theory that aliens built all of those structures and then departed with the technology is not so far fetched.
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Huge megolithic stones that weigh over 300 tons for one, perfectly fitted.. quarried and moved..I don't think we could even lift one today, let alone 100's of them. Same with the pyramids on the outside and inside. Perfectly flat. What about Machu Pichu? Puma Pinchu (sp???) Even throw in the Maya calender...sure the world didn't get sucked into the Milky Way galaxy as some predicted...but you tell me how that calender is very accurate with their basic, to say the least, understanding of mathematics. We've only know now they are accurate because of our technology (computers).


Are you familiar with Galileo? Just one man, and look at his history. Observing the stars and their positioning is the basis for these calendars. The ancients didn't have the Internet or TV to occupy their time. They watched the stars and did a lot of thinking. There's nothing "out of this world" with respect to the observation and relative logic/plotting of these things that led to the creation of time, dates, years...etc as we know them.

Moving huge stones just takes a lot of people. Cutting them square takes a lot of time. When you have hundreds or thousands of slaves you can accomplish pretty much anything. Wooden templates/frames sized and squared with a primitive gravity level. The objects are then hand-hewn to fit the template size and then rolled on a log road by slaves.

How do you think things like the Sistine Chapel, the old German cathedrals, the old castles...etc were designed? They weren't drafted in AutoCAD!

And how do you know their understanding of math was basic? We don't know that, this is an assumption. Distances, measure, how they relate, these aren't new things. Engineering is as old as the human race.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Huge megolithic stones that weigh over 300 tons for one, perfectly fitted.. quarried and moved..I don't think we could even lift one today, let alone 100's of them. Same with the pyramids on the outside and inside. Perfectly flat. What about Machu Pichu? Puma Pinchu (sp???) Even throw in the Maya calender...sure the world didn't get sucked into the Milky Way galaxy as some predicted...but you tell me how that calender is very accurate with their basic, to say the least, understanding of mathematics. We've only know now they are accurate because of our technology (computers).


Are you familiar with Galileo? Just one man, and look at his history. Observing the stars and their positioning is the basis for these calendars. The ancients didn't have the Internet or TV to occupy their time. They watched the stars and did a lot of thinking. There's nothing "out of this world" with respect to the observation and relative logic/plotting of these things that led to the creation of time, dates, years...etc as we know them.

Moving huge stones just takes a lot of people. Cutting them square takes a lot of time. When you have hundreds or thousands of slaves you can accomplish pretty much anything. Wooden templates/frames sized and squared with a primitive gravity level. The objects are then hand-hewn to fit the template size and then rolled on a log road by slaves.

How do you think things like the Sistine Chapel, the old German cathedrals, the old castles...etc were designed? They weren't drafted in AutoCAD!

And how do you know their understanding of math was basic? We don't know that, this is an assumption. Distances, measure, how they relate, these aren't new things. Engineering is as old as the human race.


Precisely, we have a hard time "remembering" how some of the greatest cathedrals were built several hundred years ago, no wonder all those alien "theorists" can push their far fetched ideas so easily.

The biggest advantage in building these great constructions back then was time, they had lots of it. Some of the biggest cathedrals in Europe took over 100 years to complete, if I remember correctly, without slave labour.
Ancients had a lot more labour force available to them via combination of slaves and hired workers and even then average built time for a pyramid was about 30-50 years.
These time frames are simply inconceivable today.
 
If you look at the evolution of cathedrals, they did invent some cool stuff like flying buttresses within recorded history, so either the aliens stuck around making us smarter or we figured it out ourselves.

I was reading that there are more people alive today than have ever lived and died... exponential growth and what not. What brilliant inventor is in kindergarten... and what total nutjob?
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Until recently, mankind was utterly unable to harness any form of "man made" power.

The simple steam engine did not exist back in ancient Rome. Yes, there survive some drawings of "ideas" from back then. But no practical example was ever commercially used.

They were fond of human powered (and animal powered) cranes. Consider that any construction company would have an "edge" over the competition with an engine. Yet, they did not exist.

Mankind may have lost some tribal knowledge, but we have gained stunning insight into so many things.

And, the example above about Roman concrete pops up every few years. I learned about Roman Concrete 40 years ago. It seems every generation must re-learn the same stuff.

No aliens, no god-like visitors, no super-human cultures. Just capable humans doing what they have always done. Building impressive stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
People like to say we can't go to the moon today, but that really is saying we chose not to do so. It's not that we can't, it's that we won't.


Lets not forget than many deny we went to the moon in the first place and some prefer to believe in aliens. Not sure it that's the same group of people or not.
 
Originally Posted By: Dwight_Frye
Considering that some of the dumbest people in modern society are the current occupants of the so called "Cradle of Civilization" region


These are not the same people. I lot of things have changed since. Don't forget that most of the Egyptian wonders of architecture had to be rediscovered from under the sand. Do you know why most Egyptian sculptures had destroyed faces?
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Theories or not, all of mankind's history on planet Earth keeps referencing it and pointing to it.

It's referencing "something" but we don't know what that is for certain and there's no way to test it.

And KrisZ's point is well taken. Many of these "claims" they make about things being impossible are factually wrong at the outset. Ancient man couldn't have built the pyramids or moved these stones and somehow we cannot today, yet Stalin had the Volga Canal built almost entirely by pick and shovel. It's amazing what slave labour can accomplish, provided you find enough "volunteers."

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Lets not forget than many deny we went to the moon in the first place and some prefer to believe in aliens. Not sure it that's the same group of people or not.

Or they believe that we went to the moon only with the help of aliens.
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we're not talking about recorded history, things that were done way before that can't be just explained away by simple math. You honestly believe that most of those works can simply be explained whereas we can't even accomplish those feats today? Come on, admit it, somethings just don't fit that genre. Galileo...that brings up one of my points. He studied the stars, mapped motions, proved orbits, etc. etc around the 1500-1600's....now what about before that? I'll bring up the Mayan calender again. If our techological advancement began, and Galileo's work has been recorded, around that point, just how did the Mayan's figure all that out if humans were not technolgically able to as we have assumed? So, from the time of Mayan's up to Galileo's time....that gap....why didn't the technology advance? There's like this void in time or like a vacuum. If "we" were so advanced wayyyyyyy back then, then logic would prevail that "we" would only advance more and more. But we didn't. It's not just the Mayan calender, there's a whole bunch of other subjects on this matter. It's like everything just stopped. Riddle me that.
 
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
we're not talking about recorded history, things that were done way before that can't be just explained away by simple math. You honestly believe that most of those works can simply be explained whereas we can't even accomplish those feats today? Come on, admit it, somethings just don't fit that genre. Galileo...that brings up one of my points. He studied the stars, mapped motions, proved orbits, etc. etc around the 1500-1600's....now what about before that? I'll bring up the Mayan calender again. If our techological advancement began, and Galileo's work has been recorded, around that point, just how did the Mayan's figure all that out if humans were not technolgically able to as we have assumed? So, from the time of Mayan's up to Galileo's time....that gap....why didn't the technology advance? There's like this void in time or like a vacuum. If "we" were so advanced wayyyyyyy back then, then logic would prevail that "we" would only advance more and more. But we didn't. It's not just the Mayan calender, there's a whole bunch of other subjects on this matter. It's like everything just stopped. Riddle me that.


You are looking at this in a far too static light. My point with mentioning Galileo was that he was one man that is now famous for his works. Do you think people before him couldn't have done the same? That intellect and genius are simply progressive points on a timeline leading up to now?

Our evolution has not been a simple upward slope. It has crested and dropped many times. Information learned has been lost through war and destruction. That knowledge then rediscovered centuries later.

And I don't think technological advancement can be pinned on a particular time. With respect to architecture, this castle in Germany was built in 630:

800px-Burg_Meersburg.jpg


That puts it about 1,000 years before Galileo entered the picture
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You can't just look at our past and say "these people were advanced but then advancement stopped. Aliens!!!". No, that society advanced to a point, just like other societies around the world at various periods of time advanced to a particular point too, and then something happened. Be it war, famine, disease....etc. And that knowledge was mostly or totally lost. There was no internet, no standardized record keeping, no universal language. Information that one ancient group had, who were then eradicated by their neighbours, was then gone. With only the physical evidence of their work remaining. Their "signature" so to speak.

As societies became more and more interconnected, this enabled information transfer so that despite the hurdles to our advancement, we've been able to retain knowledge and enable not only our own society, but societies all over the world to advance and contribute. This led to the industrial evolution, the birth of the semiconductor and overall a significant increase in the pace at which we've advanced. Because instead of individual groups developing on their own in isolation you have competing cultures all over the world who are aware of the advancements of others. The differing methods of these different cultures leads to ideas being explored on various tangents that ultimately results in even more ideas, that then again are shared and this feedback mechanism is what has steepened the pitch of our current advancement curve.
 
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