Foreverlight - invention of world significance

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Apparently he synthesized the stuff in a petri dish...

http://www.mudgeeguardian.com.au/news/lo...spx?storypage=1

Was trying to find an MSDS.


Ah, didn't say what method it uses but definitely not PECVD as I said earlier and not PN NP junction if it is blend at home. Why the clear conductive plastic?

 

[JHZR2]

In general, good electrical conductors are good thermal conductors too... Want maximum flux of heat to the active material...

Just a thought...

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Now the problem with this design is you spend a lot of money to get you a bit of light that is temperature dependent. So why not spend the same money to get even more energy in terms of solar panel and connect to the grid to slow down the consumption / reverse the meter during day time, and use the grid at night?


Trail markers that can be seen at 1.5 miles at night, and even work underwater.

Camping lights that don't take away your night vision when you need to go for a wee...and tent pegs/landrovers that you don't trip over/walk into...

Apparently there's a quantity being bought by USA as it works well without sunlight, underground.

 

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Do you disagree that photoluminescent materials work? They absorb in UV and emit in visible.
Of course not, but that doesn't break any conservation laws. They absorb photons at a higher energy level (UV) and emit ones at a lower level (visible). What these panels suposedly do is absorb at a lower level (IR) and emit at a higher (visible). The only way that's possible without an intermediate storage step like the jewel thief that I posited earlier is if two IR photons arrive simultaneously. These events are theoretically possible but too rare to count on. You'll need THREE devices: one to receive IR photons, one to store the energy and another to emit in the visible range. How is all this baked into a green sheet of plastic?

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
When you have a semiconductor and dope it with P or N type impurity right next to each other, it becomes a PN junction. This junction create a voltage difference between the 2 end like a battery.
No, there's no potential difference at rest. In fact you have to apply a minimum external potential difference before you even get across the junction in the diode's conducting direction, the forward voltage. In the system you're proposing incoming IR photons would have a lower quantum energy than the visible photons you want to emit. You can't emit half a photon.

 

[JHZR2]

All the literature that Ive seen for upconversion photoluminescence indicates that it is a two-plus photon operation to be able to take IR and upconvert to visible.

But if you are bombarded with IR, and it isnt that efficient, does it really matter? There is plenty of IR. That's the key.

 

[Shannow]

Have today received a panel sliced in 4...it was too intriguing not to get it for a look.

Certainly nothing like what would be needed to run a house, or even a single room, just a look/see.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

It is not a heat engine.

Think of it as a perpetual waterfall:

You lost me at "perpetual waterfall." I admit I'm missing something here at the conceptual level and hoping someone can fill in the blank:

Water follows gravity downward until it hits sea level; we can harness that downward energy and convert it into (for instance) electrical energy. No problems up to that point. Where you lose me is that - to me at least - you need to channel that water back up, against gravity, using some mechanism to create your "perpetual waterfall" effect and I'm not seeing the mechanism.

Anyone with a better grasp of physics, than I have with my barely remembered 1st year courses in it, care to shed light on what I'm missing here?

-Spyder

 

[Volvo_ST1]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

It is not a heat engine.

Think of it as a perpetual waterfall:

You lost me at "perpetual waterfall." I admit I'm missing something here at the conceptual level and hoping someone can fill in the blank:

Water follows gravity downward until it hits sea level; we can harness that downward energy and convert it into (for instance) electrical energy. No problems up to that point. Where you lose me is that - to me at least - you need to channel that water back up, against gravity, using some mechanism to create your "perpetual waterfall" effect and I'm not seeing the mechanism.

Anyone with a better grasp of physics, than I have with my barely remembered 1st year courses in it, care to shed light on what I'm missing here?

-Spyder


Escher's painting works because the human brain interprets geometric 2-D shapes as 3-D renderings. See "Penrose triangle" for more on that. Panda's well-intended analogy falls flat, because Escher's drawing is a clever trompe-l'oeil and not a depiction of a possible reality according to the laws ruling our universe.

 

[Spyder7]

Thanks Volvo, that would account for why I couldn't figure out how this "perpetual waterfall" effect is supposed to work based on my (admittedly very basic) understanding of physics.

-Spyder

 

[Shannow]

The perpetual waterfall doesn't work IMO, and recent mechanical analogues always seem to have some energy input mechanism.

As a mech eng, I expect a heat source and heat sink to obtain work from the gap between them...perpetual waterfalls don't exist.

JHZR2's "upconversion" links where multiple photon strikes can produce enough energy for 1 release makes sense when considered in the light that two bodies of different temperature are both considered to be radiating energy at each other, and the measurable bit is the nett.

A piece of steel at red heat is emitting visible photons, with only a heat input...it doesn't mean that the steel is disobeying thermodynamic principals.

It's beyond my league really.

 

[JHZR2]

I contacted foreverlight to acquire some of this material for my own testing and evaluation. Some came tonight. Very neat stuff. Pulled it out of the envelope and it was glowing, though part of it where there was contact of other items was fairly dark. Touching the stuff made it start glowing, so I warned it up consistently against my skin. Put it in my stairway on my steps, which are wood. It consistently has glowed for a few hours now, and the house is about 72F.

After first getting the panel warm:

After doing the same to the keyrings:

Of course winter testing will be necessary, etc., but Im thinking of acquiring a greater amount of it. I think it would be used well under the hood of a car, for example, for light if the car broke down at night, and as they explain, for places in the home where some light would be beneficial.

The stuff is not flexible (at least what I got), and feels sort of like a circuit board. Not sure if this is the nature of the binder used or by design.

Neat stuff!!!

 

[JHZR2]

Checked it again downstairs after about two hours of sitting in the dark on the table. A bit darker but still emitting. You wont mistake it for a bulb of any sort, but it sure gives off a nice glow!

 

[Shannow]

Got some myself, a four sectioned panel and a bunch of keyrings"(keyrings taken in a burglary the other week, but different story).

Instructions say that it likes to "see" the night sky, so I've got one down low that has access to a lightly curtained high window...it's glowier than the other 3 mounted high.

 

[Shannow]

Makes for a nice house number sign, although photos don't do it justice, it's really bright at night by sight.

Read an article this morning that reminded me of this stuff.