Forest Service dealing with large unauthorized gathering in Plumas National Forest

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This seems to be an annual thing they're dealing with, where the "Rainbow Family" organizes a group outing every year in a different piece of public land. Kind of like Burning Man, but without a permit.


An Unauthorized Noncommercial Group Use Incident (Rainbow Family Gathering) is occurring on the Plumas National Forest Mount Hough Ranger District approximately 5 miles north of Antelope Lake Recreation Area in Plumas County.​
The USDA Forest Service has mobilized a national incident management team with experience managing these types of incidents. The team works closely with the local community, including law enforcement agencies, throughout the incident to protect the health and safety of everyone involved, and to lessen environmental impacts to the site by providing information and enforcing laws.​
An incident of this size can have significant impacts on traffic, communities, local resources, residents, and visitors. Local businesses can expect to see large numbers of Rainbow Family participants visiting stores and buying food and supplies along routes to the incident location. Forest and local roads in the vicinity may become congested during the incident and road closures and/or traffic detours may occur.​

The supervisor has closed off the entire area through an order. I suppose that would given them the authority to eject anyone rather than have people just claim they're day hikers.


fseprd1183312.pdf



fseprd1183320.pdf
 
I struggle with things like this from a legal and ethical perspective. Similar things happen at the Jersey Shore where there are large gatherings and the residents and police do not like it and criminalize it. They criminalized backpacks. At what number of people does it go from ok to not ok? If a person posts online, Hey, come to xyz on July 1st and 500 people show up. Did that person commit a crime? Shouldn't the park system already have a limit on the number of people allowed in the park to prevent what they're trying to prevent?
 
I struggle with things like this from a legal and ethical perspective. Similar things happen at the Jersey Shore where there are large gatherings and the residents and police do not like it and criminalize it. They criminalized backpacks. At what number of people does it go from ok to not ok? If a person posts online, Hey, come to xyz on July 1st and 500 people show up. Did that person commit a crime? Shouldn't the park system already have a limit on the number of people allowed in the park to prevent what they're trying to prevent?

Yep. Laws need to be specific on what is OK and what isn't. Is there a legal limit of occupancy of that space? If so, enforce that, regardless of what event is going on. Make it clear that the problem is not the event, but the number of people exceeds the legal amount. If there is a permit that allows X amount more people, have that information available, and price it accordingly.

But other than that, a group of people in a public space, well, it is what it is. If they aren't breaking any laws, what is the big deal?
 
It's a disaster. They come in and trash the area leaving behind tons of trash, clothes, mattresses, tents, poop, etc etc. They came to the National Forest near where we lived in Pa 25 years ago before much was known about a Rainbow gathering and it was certainly criminal what they did to the land. If they would leave no trace would be one thing. You've seen photos of where illegals cross and leave mountains of stuff, like that only include large items. It is a big deal, they have no right to do that. Choose a side after you see what they leave behind.
 
I've seen the mess these hordes leave behind; it's atrocious. The irony is that many of these folks who occupy the forest with these groups are the same ones who profess we need to save the planet/nature at all costs, and restrict other people from their pleasures like hunting, fishing and ORVs. Kind of a "rules for thee but not for me" mentality.
 
It's a disaster. They come in and trash the area leaving behind tons of trash, clothes, mattresses, tents, poop, etc etc. They came to the National Forest near where we lived in Pa 25 years ago before much was known about a Rainbow gathering and it was certainly criminal what they did to the land. If they would leave no trace would be one thing. You've seen photos of where illegals cross and leave mountains of stuff, like that only include large items. It is a big deal, they have no right to do that. Choose a side after you see what they leave behind.

There's a lot of that at Shasta Lake every year. The Forest Service ends up sending in crews to pick up tons of trash by boaters - primarily college students. I suppose another issue is underage drinking and boating while intoxicated.

Shasta-Trinity National Forest officials spent six hours picking up trash this week and hauled out numerous garbage bags after students from the University of Oregon and UC Davis left Monday, said Douglas Winn, lake manager for the national forest.​
He said much more trash ― wrappers, bottles, cans, paper plates and other debris ― sank underwater and is still out in the lake and can't be cleaned up until the water level drops.​
 
Looked it up, they came to the NF in Pa in 1999, they left behind a piano in the woods. Beyond the environmental problem it's a big problem for the small towns around these remote locations.

The problem then and probably still is that it's an unofficial event. No leader, organization, etc. Word gets around and people start showing up to a place. Burning man is permitted and there's accountability.
 
Take down license plate numbers and prosecute accordingly?

To dnewton3: Don't characterize an uncounted horde in a way that fits your prejudices. I bet a hefty percentage were wearing camo and waving the flag. What you have here is a bunch of slobs with too much time on their hands.

I forget the name of the town on the Snake River, but a local told me a zillion people showed up for Evil Kinevil's "Skycycle Jump" and trashed it. Groups of people are frequently just garbage. You should know that.
 
It's a disaster. They come in and trash the area leaving behind tons of trash, clothes, mattresses, tents, poop, etc etc. They came to the National Forest near where we lived in Pa 25 years ago before much was known about a Rainbow gathering and it was certainly criminal what they did to the land. If they would leave no trace would be one thing. You've seen photos of where illegals cross and leave mountains of stuff, like that only include large items. It is a big deal, they have no right to do that. Choose a side after you see what they leave behind.
Oh, I get that. I just don't know how to manage it from a legal perspective. If 500 people of a group known to be very neat and tidy show up it's ok. But it's not ok for a group of 500 hippies because they leave behind a ton of trash. How do you know who to ban and what is the legal basis.
 
Oh, I get that. I just don't know how to manage it from a legal perspective. If 500 people of a group known to be very neat and tidy show up it's ok. But it's not ok for a group of 500 hippies because they leave behind a ton of trash. How do you know who to ban and what is the legal basis.

Public land agencies have to deal with large crowds often - especially where it's not necessarily organized. I mentioned the issues at Shasta Lake. Apparently anyone who rents a boat can do dispersed camping along the shore. But that's clearly small groups of maybe 5 to 20 who just converge there for spring break. It might require a campfire permit, but I've gotten those myself a few times, where they're valid pretty much anywhere in Califonria. It might even be possible to get one online and self-issued.

Please check for fire restrictions before you go. Campfire permits are required to have a campfire or stove at a dispersed site. Campfire permits are available online at www.readyforwildfire.org/permits/campfire-permit/
At Shasta and Trinity Lakes visitors can camp along the shore. Some areas are restricted such as a bald eagle nesting sites, but even so there are several hundred miles where shoreline camping is permitted.​

Here's an example of a campfire permit:

fsbdev3_004419.pdf


But dealing with the Rainbow Family Gathering is problematic because they select different locations that typically aren't equipped for large gatherings. I know Burning Man gets a lot of criticism over trash left behind, but at least they have an official organization that will pay to bring in law enforcement and will organize and/or pay for cleanup efforts (despite a stated pack it in, pack it out ethos).

Even having an ethos may not even be that realistic, since towns/businesses on the way back home or to the airport deal with trash just left everywhere. I've talked to people stocking up in the Bay Area on the way to Burning Man, and it was clear that they weren't going to take home a bunch of air mattresses and cheap tents back to Europe. I have seen people coming back from Burning Man, which is pretty obvious with dust everywhere and lots of cheap, disposable bikes. But at least they didn't just leave them outside a dumpster in Reno.
 
Take down license plate numbers and prosecute accordingly?

To dnewton3: Don't characterize an uncounted horde in a way that fits your prejudices. I bet a hefty percentage were wearing camo and waving the flag. What you have here is a bunch of slobs with too much time on their hands.

I forget the name of the town on the Snake River, but a local told me a zillion people showed up for Evil Kinevil's "Skycycle Jump" and trashed it. Groups of people are frequently just garbage. You should know that.
Who are you defending here. Kinda funny.

The people you think are conservative tend to clean up after themselves and don't attend giant rainbow parties.
 
Have already served 2 suspended sentences here. My views of these social media fueled gatherings is not favorable. Having said that I hope you all have a great day!
 
I struggle with things like this from a legal and ethical perspective. Similar things happen at the Jersey Shore where there are large gatherings and the residents and police do not like it and criminalize it. They criminalized backpacks. At what number of people does it go from ok to not ok? If a person posts online, Hey, come to xyz on July 1st and 500 people show up. Did that person commit a crime? Shouldn't the park system already have a limit on the number of people allowed in the park to prevent what they're trying to prevent?
100%
 
Oh, I get that. I just don't know how to manage it from a legal perspective. If 500 people of a group known to be very neat and tidy show up it's ok. But it's not ok for a group of 500 hippies because they leave behind a ton of trash. How do you know who to ban and what is the legal basis.
Any group, commercial or noncommercial of 75 or more people requires a permit.

Ed
 
Oh, I get that. I just don't know how to manage it from a legal perspective. If 500 people of a group known to be very neat and tidy show up it's ok. But it's not ok for a group of 500 hippies because they leave behind a ton of trash. How do you know who to ban and what is the legal basis.

I don't disagree that it's difficult to know how to take action.

But, for example, that doesn't stop the FS, NPS and BLM from banning ORVs because some of them do damage to trails, despite the fact that many do not.

The FS has a system for permitting the use of the lands they control; yet often these kinds of gatherings are in violation because they don't get the proper permits.
 
The FS has a system for permitting the use of the lands they control; yet often these kinds of gatherings are in violation because they don't get the proper permits.
This x100. If you want to do your gathering, follow the rules that everyone else has to follow. If you don't then suffer the consequences of the law.

If you follow the rules, and there are issues afterwards, expect to be banned or prosecuted.

I don't care if you're a hippie, biker gang, MAGA, etc etc. Everyone plays by the same rules, no exceptions.
 
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