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Ford PTU's and Oil choices
- Thread starter Mekks
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I think these PTU issues are more overblown on the newer 2014+ Ford AWD models. If you go back to 2009/10 their PTU's held less fluid and didn't have any cooling. Anyone who would take it into that 90 percentile of sustained use could/would experience an overheating PTU, which would fry it pretty much for good. Some Taurus SHO models, Explorer and AWD PI models had a rather simple cooling system. The other units then had external cooling aids to direct air flow to the PTU. For most people, this isn't a problem. However, in extreme use it can cook the fluid. That is why changing it is important. Putting the best fluid in there you can helps too.
If you are going to take a Ford Edge up icy and snowy mountain roads with bald all season tires. I would expect that you are asking for trouble regardless of fluid.
If you are going to take a Ford Edge up icy and snowy mountain roads with bald all season tires. I would expect that you are asking for trouble regardless of fluid.
4WD
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If it was any good Ford would have not changed the good selling Explorer when they got rid of the poor selling Taurus and that shoebox that formally shared the same platform …
Originally Posted by rideahorse
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
We replace a ton of them, but mostly on the CHP Explorers. Even with the upgraded cooling system they let go enough that we stock the assembly.
Also funny my mom's 2014 Fusion Titanium has drain and fill plugs on the PTU. But it is a 2.0WB and those PTUs never go bad because the exhaust doesn't run next to/under them.
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
We replace a ton of them, but mostly on the CHP Explorers. Even with the upgraded cooling system they let go enough that we stock the assembly.
Also funny my mom's 2014 Fusion Titanium has drain and fill plugs on the PTU. But it is a 2.0WB and those PTUs never go bad because the exhaust doesn't run next to/under them.
4WD
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Yeah … might be too soon to tell … but the new Explorer driveline should be a step forward
I think the failures were so high in the older ones because Ford stuck to the whole fill for crap they love to use. Now that they are telling people to change the fluid and updating air flow to them the failures are getting better. Heck even BG company is selling a tool to change the fluid now.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted by rideahorse
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
There are three problems associated with the failure rate: 1) is radiated and convected heat from the exhaust system, 2) another is the small volume of fluid contained within the unit, and 3) is the lack of convection cooling due to low air flow over the unit i.e., lack of sufficient heat rejection.
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
There are three problems associated with the failure rate: 1) is radiated and convected heat from the exhaust system, 2) another is the small volume of fluid contained within the unit, and 3) is the lack of convection cooling due to low air flow over the unit i.e., lack of sufficient heat rejection.
4WD
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by rideahorse
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
There are three problems associated with the failure rate: 1) is radiated and convected heat from the exhaust system, 2) another is the small volume of fluid contained within the unit, and 3) is the lack of convection cooling due to low air flow over the unit i.e., lack of sufficient heat rejection.
Spot on … I'd never expect Ford to do what I did … but 30 minutes and 30 bucks to apply titanium header tape helping protect those hard to change precious ounces of gear oil matters …
Those who brag it's easy to change this fluid are in a P10 world.
Originally Posted by rideahorse
This whole PTU problem is blown way out of proportion. The failure rate is pretty low. If it was caused by heat from the exhaust it would be almost all of them.
There are three problems associated with the failure rate: 1) is radiated and convected heat from the exhaust system, 2) another is the small volume of fluid contained within the unit, and 3) is the lack of convection cooling due to low air flow over the unit i.e., lack of sufficient heat rejection.
Spot on … I'd never expect Ford to do what I did … but 30 minutes and 30 bucks to apply titanium header tape helping protect those hard to change precious ounces of gear oil matters …
Those who brag it's easy to change this fluid are in a P10 world.
Originally Posted by Mekks
I have a 2016 Ford Explorer Limited with the 3.5 NA v6. I need to change my PTU fluid. It calls for 75w140 but due to the huge heat load and small filling capacity of this unit I was wondering if you guy would advise using something different. Maybe a synthetic 80w140 or even Redline Lightweight Shock proof? The unit is known to hit 250-290F temps. I plan to change the fluid every 25k miles.
A good quality full syn 75w140.
Brian has an excellent video.
https://youtu.be/sS9JPaf1MDg
I have a 2016 Ford Explorer Limited with the 3.5 NA v6. I need to change my PTU fluid. It calls for 75w140 but due to the huge heat load and small filling capacity of this unit I was wondering if you guy would advise using something different. Maybe a synthetic 80w140 or even Redline Lightweight Shock proof? The unit is known to hit 250-290F temps. I plan to change the fluid every 25k miles.
A good quality full syn 75w140.
Brian has an excellent video.
https://youtu.be/sS9JPaf1MDg
4WD
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He makes good videos … but keep in mind there are many versions to the point some people drilled and tapped the case to even have a means to drain ! Lifetime fluid maybe … just don't ask about the life.
That part when he inserts the ratchet ? No chance on my 2015 … I had 4 different tools that would not fit in the space I had. That's how close my exhaust was to the case … not near the space he had in this video.
I needed to do one of two things. Remove exhaust from the engine (nope) … or take it to the muffler shop and have that tube replaced … so, the muffler shop moved the tube about an inch from the case (best we could do, I was under the Explorer with the shop owner).
So that's why the last thing I did was apply header tape to BOTH tubes that cocooned the PTU.
I had purchased a Fumoto valve hoping to use my super syringe going forward … but not enough room.
Ended up trading since this model had the infamous exhaust fume problem and Ford had no TSB out to fix it at the time.
Took a heavy loss on the $50k SUV.
That part when he inserts the ratchet ? No chance on my 2015 … I had 4 different tools that would not fit in the space I had. That's how close my exhaust was to the case … not near the space he had in this video.
I needed to do one of two things. Remove exhaust from the engine (nope) … or take it to the muffler shop and have that tube replaced … so, the muffler shop moved the tube about an inch from the case (best we could do, I was under the Explorer with the shop owner).
So that's why the last thing I did was apply header tape to BOTH tubes that cocooned the PTU.
I had purchased a Fumoto valve hoping to use my super syringe going forward … but not enough room.
Ended up trading since this model had the infamous exhaust fume problem and Ford had no TSB out to fix it at the time.
Took a heavy loss on the $50k SUV.
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Changed the fluid yesterday with some Redline 75w-140. Used a cheap $20 pump from amazon to suck fluid out (huge pain in the [censored]). Fishing that small plastic tube down past the gears was rough. Drained and filled it 2x to try and flush old fluid out.
Fluid that came out (about 10oz) was very dark but nothing like grease that some people have found. After the final drain I filled till it was spilling out of the fill port. Took about 18oz.
Fluid that came out (about 10oz) was very dark but nothing like grease that some people have found. After the final drain I filled till it was spilling out of the fill port. Took about 18oz.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
Nope; as I stated a couple weeks ago, I never buy a 1st year model of anything, and I watch for horror stories of vehicles I "may" at some point be interested in buying. If early adopters and/or extended information shows either really difficult maintenance or multiple indicators of poor engineering, I stay clear. The last part is, I speak and believe the fact that no oil or transmission fluid can fix an engineering gaffe in its respective equipment, so that's why.
I wasn't arguing your point that Redline is probably the best fluid in this case; just the fact that even Redline isn't going to correct the issue of the differential running hot.
There are 2 different PTUs being discussed in this thread. The Explorer/Taurus/Edge V6 use one style of PTU - the crappy one. The Escape/Fusion uses another PTU, and the 2.0/2.3 EcoBoost Explorer/Taurus/Edge appear to use a different PTU as well, and these don't appear to have issues. The Explorer PTU has idler gears that supposedly walked into the case, held minimal fluid, and sat over the exhaust. Ford made several gear changes, last one was June 2016, that supposedly fixed the problem. But this is not a first year model problem, Ford used this PTU basically from 2007 to 2019 on the Explorer/Taurus/Edge/MKS and I believe Mazda CX-9.
If you got the cooling package on the SHO perf package or Explorer Sport, your PTU had a drain plug but no fill plug (some use the temp sender as the fill port). If you did not have a cooling package, then you had only a fill plug.
On my Fusion Sport 2.7 EcoBoost (twin-turbo V6, 99.9% the same engine as the pre-17 F-150 trucks), the PTU has a water cooling package, with separate TP-50 drain AND fill plugs and holds more gear oil. Again this is an entirely different PTU from the Taurus/Explorer/Edge.
FWIW Amsoil's MSDS shows hydrotreated heavy paraffinic base oil for their severe gear oils. I used to think they had Group IV/V basestocks but I guess not for their gear oils.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
Nope; as I stated a couple weeks ago, I never buy a 1st year model of anything, and I watch for horror stories of vehicles I "may" at some point be interested in buying. If early adopters and/or extended information shows either really difficult maintenance or multiple indicators of poor engineering, I stay clear. The last part is, I speak and believe the fact that no oil or transmission fluid can fix an engineering gaffe in its respective equipment, so that's why.
I wasn't arguing your point that Redline is probably the best fluid in this case; just the fact that even Redline isn't going to correct the issue of the differential running hot.
There are 2 different PTUs being discussed in this thread. The Explorer/Taurus/Edge V6 use one style of PTU - the crappy one. The Escape/Fusion uses another PTU, and the 2.0/2.3 EcoBoost Explorer/Taurus/Edge appear to use a different PTU as well, and these don't appear to have issues. The Explorer PTU has idler gears that supposedly walked into the case, held minimal fluid, and sat over the exhaust. Ford made several gear changes, last one was June 2016, that supposedly fixed the problem. But this is not a first year model problem, Ford used this PTU basically from 2007 to 2019 on the Explorer/Taurus/Edge/MKS and I believe Mazda CX-9.
If you got the cooling package on the SHO perf package or Explorer Sport, your PTU had a drain plug but no fill plug (some use the temp sender as the fill port). If you did not have a cooling package, then you had only a fill plug.
On my Fusion Sport 2.7 EcoBoost (twin-turbo V6, 99.9% the same engine as the pre-17 F-150 trucks), the PTU has a water cooling package, with separate TP-50 drain AND fill plugs and holds more gear oil. Again this is an entirely different PTU from the Taurus/Explorer/Edge.
FWIW Amsoil's MSDS shows hydrotreated heavy paraffinic base oil for their severe gear oils. I used to think they had Group IV/V basestocks but I guess not for their gear oils.
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
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Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
Yes. But the water cooling is only worth like 40F-50F cooling max and the Police Interceptor PTUs still fail. The internal water pumps on the 3.7/3.5 EcoBoost engines on the Police Interceptor are replaced regularly as well.
The 2020 Explorer has a bunch of its own new problems, mainly due to poor quality from the Chicago plant and software/hardware issues. The build quality on my 2014 SHO and 2018 Explorer XLT are absolutely atrocious.
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
Yes. But the water cooling is only worth like 40F-50F cooling max and the Police Interceptor PTUs still fail. The internal water pumps on the 3.7/3.5 EcoBoost engines on the Police Interceptor are replaced regularly as well.
The 2020 Explorer has a bunch of its own new problems, mainly due to poor quality from the Chicago plant and software/hardware issues. The build quality on my 2014 SHO and 2018 Explorer XLT are absolutely atrocious.
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
It appears on the Explorers it depends if the proper box was checked when ordering. I have seen a lot come with, but some do not.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
It appears on the Explorers it depends if the proper box was checked when ordering. I have seen a lot come with, but some do not.
Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
No, mine are not. The ones I service are all identical and range from 2013-2018 with 3.5 or 3.7 non turbo engines.
Originally Posted by mpgo4th
Originally Posted by 4WD
Have you done these yourself ?
I have. Many times. My wifes car has one too. I have 5 police interceptor sedans (Taurus) and 4 police interceptor utilities (Explorer) in my fleet at work with all wheel drive. The police PTU is slightly different though. It has a 3/16 drain plug but no fill plug. Where the fill plug is supposed to be, they put a temp sensor with an o-ring to seal it. I unplug the sensor an take it out to fill the PTU then put it back every 25-30k miles. I've used mostly Motorcraft 75w140 but lately I've been getting Mag1 full syn 75w140 because it's about half of the cost. My wifes car is easy. It has a drain plug and fill plug. The ones you suck out are a lot easier if you can get that fluid warm first. Good luck.
Are the PTU's on the Police Interceptor packages water cooled as well?
I've seen that feature some normal Explorers are as well as the SHO with the race/ track package.
No, mine are not. The ones I service are all identical and range from 2013-2018 with 3.5 or 3.7 non turbo engines.
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