Ford Focus Alignment - Tire Wear?

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Ifixyawata

Ifixyawata

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Finally broke down and bought a set of 4 new tires. Had just replaced outer tie rod ends, so I knew I would need an alignment. Took it to a mom and pop place to save on alignment cost, didn't realize that I was only getting a front end alignment. After tire install and alignment check, tire guys print me this report and say that the toe-out on the left rear wheel is the biggest concern for wear. Since that wheel is toe out and the other rear is toe in, wouldn't it just rear-steer the car? My bigger concern would be the negative camber on the rear wheels as an inside-wear cause. Anyone have any words of advice? Will I chow my tires down running this way?

http://imgur.com/YU61fKT
 
Camber won't wear tires nearly as fast (if at all) as toe. If that were the case, the Honda SUVs and minvans would be replacing tires frequently.

Rear tire wear due to excessive toe on Focuses is quite common. Their control blade rear suspension - or SLA - does play with toe as it compresses to sort of provide a passive rear steering. Two problems - the spec is so vague that a lot of cars leave the factory "in spec" and end up burning rear tires off. The other is, as the coil springs wear, the rear alignment will change.

My 2011 burnt through it's OE set of tires and would only wear the rear. If your car isn't too rusty, you can get camber bolts for the rear and an alignment shop can adjust the toe to get it on point.
 
I'm wondering how they got rear readings if they did not do a 4 wheel alignment, or why they did not at least offer to make the rear adjustment for additional charge if they had not quoted for it.

IMO Readings are suspect.

What did the tires that came off look like?

Thrust angle is bad, I would want that fixed, rear toe is adjustable.

Rear camber requires a revised rear arm (or aftermarket adjustable) looks like -1.25 is preferred so the revised arm will take you under preferred to about -.9. If the tires that came of were fairly evenly worn, I would leave it.

Cross camber on the front is pretty miserable too, I'd fix that.

Advice, take it some where that has a fairly new Hunter rack and someone with a clue how to use it.
 
Originally Posted By: Ifixyawata
After tire install and alignment check, tire guys print me this report and say that the toe-out on the left rear wheel is the biggest concern for wear. Since that wheel is toe out and the other rear is toe in, wouldn't it just rear-steer the car? My bigger concern would be the negative camber on the rear wheels as an inside-wear cause. Anyone have any words of advice? Will I chow my tires down running this way?


I would tend to agree with your alignment guy that the LR is the biggest factor. Negative camber in itself isn't a huge contributor to tire wear, but, coupled with toe, it can be a bad condition. Your LR tire's inner shoulder is being dragged a bit sideways across the road as you travel. It could steer the rear of the car some (see the thrust angle measurement), but the cross toe is the concern -- you can't escape the fact that the rear toe needs to be addressed.

All of that is presuming this alignment measurement is accurate. It appears to be a print-out from modern alignment equipment, but I've experienced a lot of variance in terms of technician experience and knowledge with regard to setting it up or using it correctly. A second opinion would be good.
 
I should have been more clear. I got the alignment at the mom & pop place, no printout. The report is from the alignment check at Firestone.

When I bought the car, the tires were close to the end of their useful lives. Still, I rotated them once (moved fronts straight back and crossed the rears onto the front). After a few thousand miles I had belts coming through on 3 of 4 tires and out-of-round condition on at least a couple. The car felt like the Family Truckster in the movie Vacation after the hillbilly repair. Feels much better now, at least.
 
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If it was from a drive in alignment check where the scan from the heads hanging down from the ceiling, those will always say you need an alignment. They are just cash generators.
 
Interesting alignment, the rear toe out is sort of counter acting the rear camber so I imagine the rear still tracks pretty straight? With new tires I'd get the rears set at zero toe(easy to do) and see what happens. There are new adjustable upper control arms that can be used to reduce rear camber, but that's more expensive.
I had fairly extreme rear toe in that caused the rear end to move around alot on ice. I had the guy just set the toe to zero and leave the camber alone and it tracks well on everything.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Finally a hint as to why rear drive BMWs are so bad on ice and snow.


I've heard a lot of people complain about Focuses that were on the outer edge of acceptable being quite touchy and tail happy - yes, a front wheel drive car - in the snow and ice.
 
I cant see the chart!

You want around 1 deg neg camber and some stabilizing toe-in in the rear. about 0.2deg total in.

front toe should be equal side to side and .07-.05 deg per side IN. total toe .10-.14deg IN.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Finally a hint as to why rear drive BMWs are so bad on ice and snow.


I've heard a lot of people complain about Focuses that were on the outer edge of acceptable being quite touchy and tail happy - yes, a front wheel drive car - in the snow and ice.

I assume the rear toe helps the back end feel more connected to the front, as its already got some steering angle when you load up the outside rear when turning. But on ice or differing traction from side to side it makes the back end move around without any steering inputs requiring you to make corrections... Not fun in a wet pavement with patches of black ice situation. I should have made the rear toe zero when I got the car, but this winter the rears are down to 7/32 and it was getting annoying to control.
 
If the alignment came with any type of warranty, install 3 camber bolts in before going in and have them adjust that as well. In so far is buying a 2 wheel alignment instead of a 4, that's your fault for not asking.

Either that or just adjust that left rear wheel so it points in a little bit and get another free alignment check. You can probably do the math to figure out how much to turn the adjusters (my 1995 Ford Escort Factory Service manual actually tells you haw much to turn the tie rod ends to adjust the front alignment degrees).
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If the alignment came with any type of warranty, install 3 camber bolts in before going in and have them adjust that as well. In so far is buying a 2 wheel alignment instead of a 4, that's your fault for not asking.

Either that or just adjust that left rear wheel so it points in a little bit and get another free alignment check. You can probably do the math to figure out how much to turn the adjusters (my 1995 Ford Escort Factory Service manual actually tells you haw much to turn the tie rod ends to adjust the front alignment degrees).

You can not instill thoes type of cams on a focus.

Thier should be a cam already back thier for rear toe. Thier is just no adjustment for camber unless you buy an adjustable arm. They probably didn't want to adjust it or what is more common is the cam is frozen due to rust.
 
Originally Posted By: gabriel9766
You can not instill those type of cams on a focus.


I just looked at some pictures of struts for this car, and I have no idea how the bottom part attaches to the car.




Originally Posted By: gabriel9766
They probably didn't want to adjust it or what is more common is the cam is frozen due to rust.


I was wondering about that. I bet it happens a lot.
 
SPC

Specialty Products Company

Sells both adjustable rear arms and camber bolts for the rear. I'm not a fan of this type of bolt and I would likely go with the arms if I was going to make an adjustment.

The front camber caster kit is an upper strut mount with a cam plate.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx

I just looked at some pictures of struts for this car, and I have no idea how the bottom part attaches to the car.


The front struts clamp into the knuckle, it seems.

The rear has separate coils and shocks, no struts.

I best like the idea of trying to adjust the rear toe back in and then getting another free alignment check.

I was definitely hasty in getting the alignment done and realize now that I should've asked beforehand about 2 or 4 wheel.
 
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