Ford EV BU $3B loss this year

[alarmguy]

I'm quite pleased with mine

I would be proud of that look too. To us, it is the pinnacle of an awesome, well done look. Just gorgeous, right down to the calipers.
Im sure well done mechanically too but this is my point. When Americans see cars like this, they will fly out of the showrooms, asuming they are affordable and other than forums they are not going to compare specs against a Tesla. They want the look and comfort.

 

[Ws6]

I would be proud of that look too. To us, it is the pinnacle of an awesome, well done look. Just gorgeous, right down to the calipers.

It's smooth, quiet, and fast as hell, too. The only thing it gives up to Tesla is efficiency, with C&D getting 190mi out of it vs 230mi at 75mph for the MYP. It's a heap faster than the MYP, though, so give/take.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Im sure you do understand that Tesla lost money every single year that they were in existence for a full decade.
... and who cares? The consumer certainly doesnt, just people in forums.

Yep. Consumers, aka the market, spend their hard earned money on what they want. Personally, I believe the strength of a company is every bit as important as their products, but then again I come from a business background. Companies live and die based on cash flow and financials.

Tesla's 1st profitable qtr, without the carbon credits, was 2021 Q3 I think. Now they are highly profitable with margins that are the envy of the car business. This offers formidible leverage on the business side. They can squeeze out other companies with a price war.

Speaking of customers, Tesla will, by far, outsell BMW and MBZ combined in the US this qtr.

The 5.1-percent US market share would also place Tesla above mass-market automakers such as Mazda, Subaru, and even the mighty Volkswagen Group – including Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Porsche, and Volkswagen.

40% growth YOY Q1 in the US. Of course sales in Europe continues rapid growth as well. Taking marketshare everywhere.

 

[CKN]

Maybe Evs are a novelty and sales will plateau. The inevitable recession might put EVs out of reach for the average car buyer. Even the states are getting into the act. Looks like NC is going to hike the property taxes on EVs to make their owners 'pay their fair share'. Maybe they should pay a surtax on electricty too. The rest of us ought not pay an increase on power. No more freeloading.

https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2023/Bills/Senate/PDF/S354v0.pdf

You need to google how much vehicle manufacturers are spending on EV development-and then how sales have dramatically increased. It will prove you first statement nonsensical.

 

[UncleDave]

It's smooth, quiet, and fast as hell, too. The only thing it gives up to Tesla is efficiency, with C&D getting 190mi out of it vs 230mi at 75mph for the MYP. It's a heap faster than the MYP, though, so give/take.

Your car is bitchin.

3.5 vs 3.2 isnt what Id call a "heap", but it is a bit quicker.

Kia is also more expensive and the base unit isnt eligible for the 7,500.00 so that one is substantially more expensive.

Have we seen EGMP degradation curves yet? Im guessing it will be pretty good, but just haven't seen any.

 

[Ws6]

Your car is bitchin.

3.5 vs 3.2 isnt what Id call a "heap", but it is a bit quicker.

Kia is also more expensive and the base unit isnt eligible for the 7,500.00 so that one is substantially more expensive.

Have we seen EGMP degradation curves yet? Im guessing it will be pretty good, but just haven't seen any.

Its not just the 0-60, its the 120mph trap speed and mid 11s 1/4. It just doesn't stop pulling hard. I ran an 11.60@118 with the battery not even in optimally conditioned state, in 32f weather, for example. Also, it pulls hard even in lower charge states. Ran a 3.63 0-60 (including roll out) at 53% SoC. 4.46, at 35% SoC.

So far one guy has about 50k miles on his 2022 FE and has no discernible loss. His range is same as when new, and via OBD port interface the BMS/SoC are still showing 100% health.

Yes, it does cost more than MYP, but you get more power, serviceable battery pack which entails lower insurance. I carry state maximum policy limits and 1k ded full coverage and its a bit over $900/6mo. You get adjustable suspension. Adjustable regen. Ability to set the car up any way you like (want full GT power but softer suspension but firmer steering but less touchy brakes but aggressive diff engagement with all stabiltiy control in max settings? Sure thing. Any combo you want.) You get HUD. Faux suede buckets. An instrument cluster in front of you. 1000hrs free CCS charging. Much better QA/QC. Even counting the tax credit, this is about a $13k difference if both compared at msrp currently. Its up to the user if this feature set and roughly 100hp more is worth the money, and giving up the Tesla network (or maybe not with the v4 and magic dock rollout...). Also, compare insurance. It may make it similarly priced over the ownership experience. Whats Tesla insurance running with my level of coverage?

 

[UncleDave]

Its not just the 0-60, its the 120mph trap speed and mid 11s 1/4. It just doesn't stop pulling hard. I ran an 11.60@118 with the battery not even in optimally conditioned state, in 32f weather, for example. Also, it pulls hard even in lower charge states. Ran a 3.63 0-60 (including roll out) at 53% SoC. 4.46, at 35% SoC.

So far one guy has about 50k miles on his 2022 FE and has no discernible loss. His range is same as when new, and via OBD port interface the BMS/SoC are still showing 100% health.

Yes, it does cost more than MYP, but you get more power, serviceable battery pack which entails lower insurance. I carry state maximum policy limits and 1k ded full coverage and its a bit over $900/6mo. You get adjustable suspension. Adjustable regen. Ability to set the car up any way you like (want full GT power but softer suspension but firmer steering but less touchy brakes but aggressive diff engagement with all stabiltiy control in max settings? Sure thing. Any combo you want.) You get HUD. Faux suede buckets. An instrument cluster in front of you. 1000hrs free CCS charging. Much better QA/QC. Even counting the tax credit, this is about a $13k difference if both compared at msrp currently. Its up to the user if this feature set and roughly 100hp more is worth the money, and giving up the Tesla network (or maybe not with the v4 and magic dock rollout...). Also, compare insurance. It may make it similarly priced over the ownership experience. Whats Tesla insurance running with my level of coverage?

There are a bunch of reasons to like the Kia all the stuff on your list being some.

There are two big elephants in the kia room - pouch batteries and high speed charging /cabin climate control compromises.

The battery appears good, but the sample size needs to get bigger before Id bite.

Insurance varies drastically between people in general - Jeffs is pretty cheap but thats a model 3.

 

[Ws6]

There are a bunch of reasons to like the Kia all the stuff on your list being some.

There are two big elephants in the kia room - pouch batteries and high speed charging /cabin climate control compromises.

The battery appears good, but the sample size needs to get bigger before Id bite.

Pouch is fine. It has more to do with quality of the cells/pouches and pack design than anything else. Also yes, Tesla octovalve is a legit feature.

New Data: Only 1.5% Of EVs Have Had Non-Recall Battery Replacements

According to data compiled by Recurrent Auto, most EVs still have their original battery packs, which is good news for EV owners worried about longevity.

www.google.com

 

[Torrid]

You know I really like the EV6 GT and I would be inclined to get one, but charging with it's current range, even though more realistic than Tesla's numbers would not do it for me. I particularly like the styling, the fact that it's more of a big hatch than a crossover. In town I have both Tesla and other EV chargers(CCS). The issue is for me that my one destination I can be called to is 149 miles and it's driving through a lot of the middle of nowhere for the shortest distance, though I go past a somewhat major tourist spot, they only have either hotel charging or a Tesla Supercharger. Looking at PlugShare I have one charger at the halfway point, a Tesla Supercharger and one in my final destination city, neither of which are equipped with the new Magic Docks to allow non Tesla vehicles. There are 7 other chargers that I see very close to my destination, including one at a Kia dealer which all are J-1772 and one hotel which my company doesn't have a contract with with a J-1772.

It sucks because of the time frame required with my job I couldn't drive anything but a Tesla if I was determined to only have electric. Electrify America or someone else has to step their game up because at this point I'm determined more to have a hatch than anything. It's perfect for my use. I like the EV6 GT. I'd also like Audi to bring the RS3 hatch here, because I don't completely love the sedan and at this point RS3 markups are astronomical. Realistically I'd buy a Golf R or another GTI if I had to buy something tomorrow. From the point of the Golf R the Model 3 Performance is about $7k more.

 

[Ws6]

You know I really like the EV6 GT and I would be inclined to get one, but charging with it's current range, even though more realistic than Tesla's numbers would not do it for me. I particularly like the styling, the fact that it's more of a big hatch than a crossover. In town I have both Tesla and other EV chargers(CCS). The issue is for me that my one destination I can be called to is 149 miles and it's driving through a lot of the middle of nowhere for the shortest distance, though I go past a somewhat major tourist spot, they only have either hotel charging or a Tesla Supercharger. Looking at PlugShare I have one charger at the halfway point, a Tesla Supercharger and one in my final destination city, neither of which are equipped with the new Magic Docks to allow non Tesla vehicles. There are 7 other chargers that I see very close to my destination, including one at a Kia dealer which all are J-1772 and one hotel which my company doesn't have a contract with with a J-1772.

It sucks because of the time frame required with my job I couldn't drive anything but a Tesla if I was determined to only have electric. Electrify America or someone else has to step their game up because at this point I'm determined more to have a hatch than anything. It's perfect for my use. I like the EV6 GT. I'd also like Audi to bring the RS3 hatch here, because I don't completely love the sedan and at this point RS3 markups are astronomical. Realistically I'd buy a Golf R or another GTI if I had to buy something tomorrow. From the point of the Golf R the Model 3 Performance is about $7k more.

Actually ran an RS3 from the mid/top of his first gear the other day. It was a total slaughter. Like, to the point that if I didn't hear that engine, I would have thought he didn't know we were even getting it.