Ford 6 Speed Dual Clutch Auto problems?

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I've read that the 6 speed DCT transmission in the Ford little cars has had issues such as being like someone learning to drive a stick, getting confused between the right gears etc.

Any truth to this and any special precaustions about service or life of these transmissions versus say... an old fashioned 4 speed AT from a Toyota?
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I've read that the 6 speed DCT transmission in the Ford little cars has had issues such as being like someone learning to drive a stick, getting confused between the right gears etc.

Any truth to this and any special precaustions about service or life of these transmissions versus say... an old fashioned 4 speed AT from a Toyota?
I just bought a V6 Camry with six forward speeds. That motor doesn't need 6 forward speeds.
 
Try using them in reverse..........



Quote:
I just bought a V6 Camry with six forward speeds. That motor doesn't need 6 forward speeds.
 
It is a different type of transmission and the number of gears has nothing to do with it. It doesn't have a torque converter, but instead it has a dual clutch setup that is modulated by a computer controlled actuator. The way it operates simply cannot be compared to the traditional, fluid coupling automatic transmissions.

I haven't driven much in Fords equipped with DCT, but I did have some seat time in a VW DSG equipped Jetta. In normal driving with not much stop-and-go, VW DSG operates quite nicely and smoothly. It is only in stop-and-go traffic that the computer struggles with smooth take offs and downshifts.
 
Youtube has some videos about Fords DCT. Apparently it uses dry clutches and they are not very smooth when accelerating from a stop with a lot of throttle. Also they tend to hesitate if you do abrupt changes in the amount of power such as accelerating heavily and then suddenly getting on the brake, or getting on the brake and then suddenly accelerating.

Check out the Youtube videos.
 
One of the Youtube videos talks about the tools required to service the clutches on a DCT. It said that there are 4 complete sets of special tools required to remove and replace them.
 
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I have no experinece with the Ford DCT, but I've had several rental VWs with their DSG transmission which works basically the same way.

On the positive side: it shifts very firmly, like an old 60s American automatic with a mild shift kit. I like that, but a lot of people find it harsh because you can feel every shift- people today seem to like their cars to glide between gears, and with fly-by-wire throttle controls traditional automatics can achieve that smoothness without the wear penalty they would have had in the old days, when smooth shifts meant a lot of clutch slippage and loose torque convertor coupling.

Also the VW implementation makes very good use of engine torque, combined with the generally good low-end torque of VW gasoline engines anyway. It really scoots at low speed and is very responsive.

On the negative side: Leaving a stop is an exercise in hatred of the transmission. It simply *will not* do it smoothly or even comfortably for your passengers. The initial engagement is OK when you lift your foot off the brake, but then about 20 feet into your roll there's a noticeable lurch. And the first shift is too harsh even for me. Don't even get me started on how weird and herky-jerky it is if you lift off the brake, inch forward, and then brake again like you often do in bumper-to-bumper traffic. It just feels very unrefined and clunky.

Bottom line, I honestly see no reason for this type of transmission to exist. It has few advantages over a traditional auto, and a lot of drawbacks. It may be marginally more efficient, but I question even that. It seems more like a case of dog-lick engineering ("because we can...") :-/
 
I own a DCT-equipped Focus and can tell you there's a ton of truth in these stories. Unlike VW, Ford uses a dry clutch, which seems to be the source of its problems.

When working properly, the DCT is actually pretty engaging: crisp shifts, sporty feel, great fuel economy and the like. It can get confused at times and produce the odd or rough shift, but these are not so common.

The problem is the DCT doesn't always work properly and can produce pronounced clutch chatter at launch, clutch slippage during acceleration, gear grinding, etc. Ford has updated the software many times, which has helped. Leaky seals were any issue for a few model years allowing transmission fluid to contaminate clutches, new seals have been introduced. And the transmission control module (an expensive bit that actually does the gear changes) is subject to early failure. Ford has extended the TCM warranty, but that won't help much when you're stuck somewhere you don't want to be.

Despite all of the this, the DCT is still a mess. Mine is in for its second clutch replacement (in 35,000 miles) despite revised seals and up-to-date software. The current theory seems to be the clutches warp, creating chatter and slippage.

I can't believe the DCT will survive into the next generation Focus. So, if you want a temperamental, unreliable, soon-to-be-orphaned piece of hardware that shouldn't be owned outside of warranty, this is the car for you. Otherwise look elsewhere. If the Focus appeals to you, go for a manual of the 1.0 EcoBoost, which is available with a conventional 6 speed automatic.

As a short answer to your question, there is no transmission available in North America that is more troublesome. And second place isn't even close.
 
No. Just understanding why the feel different is all that is needed. If you expect it to drive like a torque converter AT, you will hate it.

EDIT: My mom's fiesta now has around 75k on its DCT with zero issues.
 
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Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I've read that the 6 speed DCT transmission in the Ford little cars has had issues such as being like someone learning to drive a stick, getting confused between the right gears etc.

Any truth to this and any special precaustions about service or life of these transmissions versus say... an old fashioned 4 speed AT from a Toyota?


You're not going to get more reliable than a 4 speed Toyota conventional automatic.


Originally Posted By: Danh
I can't believe the DCT will survive into the next generation Focus. So, if you want a temperamental, unreliable, soon-to-be-orphaned piece of hardware that shouldn't be owned outside of warranty, this is the car for you. Otherwise look elsewhere. If the Focus appeals to you, go for a manual of the 1.0 EcoBoost, which is available with a conventional 6 speed automatic.


Really!? So the 1.0L comes with both a better manual and automatic transmission.

I think once I get myself past my distrust of timing belts, I may end up with one of these!
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Don't even get me started on how weird and herky-jerky it is if you lift off the brake, inch forward, and then brake again like you often do in bumper-to-bumper traffic. It just feels very unrefined and clunky.


I can describe that experience! It would dump the clutch every 5 seconds trying to crawl in traffic haha.
 
They are one of the few cars that I tell people to get the manual so they have less problems. I would never buy a Focus or Fiesta with the Powershift transmission.
 
I'm a die hard Ford guy and I wouldn't buy one.

I did drive one as a longer in a Focus. Didn't seem too bad, but IIRC that car only had 2k miles on it. The stories of the issues seem to be rather large.

Good in theory but not there yet in production.
 
I helped my daughter buy a 2016 Ford Fiesta last month and that transmission is something like I never felt before. It shifts very quickly, almost too quickly I thought during the test drive. My daughter liked the car so we got it.
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
I own a DCT-equipped Focus and can tell you there's a ton of truth in these stories. Unlike VW, Ford uses a dry clutch, which seems to be the source of its problems.

I can't believe the DCT will survive into the next generation Focus.

It didn't - Ford quietly changed to a six speed conventional automatic in the Focus but certain other models still have a Getrag DCT.

My VW Polo (1 yr old now) has a 7-speed DSG with dry clutches and it works just fine. Takes-offs are perfect, slow or fast, and shifts are nearly imperceptible. I've never even felt the need to use manual or sport mode because it's always been responsive to my driving requirements.

Perhaps there are issues with the way Ford or Getrag implemented the dry clutches? The biggest design difference from the 7-spd VW DSG is that the DCT uses geared electric motors to shift gears while the VW units are hydraulic. The slow response time of the motors compared with hydraulics must be difficult to deal with in firmware. VW also has had more time to sort out their firmware and we all know there were a few teething issues. The 7-spd differs from the 6-speed wet-clutch DSG in that the hydraulic oil is separate from the gear oil and neither have a change interval. The 6-sp has a 40,000 km change interval.

In the meantime, conventional autos are getting really good of late with more speeds combined with lock-up, and I suspect may overtake automated manuals in the future.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Getrag. Same company that makes the 6 speed manuals that explode in the mustangs



MT-82s hold power well, they have pedal height/shift inconsistencies.
 
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant

Try using them in reverse..........



Quote:
I just bought a V6 Camry with six forward speeds. That motor doesn't need 6 forward speeds.
Tell us all about it, Sparky.
 
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