foaming question

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nuskool

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I just got a new trans in our 02 PT Cruiser. Under warranty. Had a cracked case. (I have no idea how that happens) Anyway I had Amsoil in the last one and asked them to put it in the new one. They said they chose not to because they saw some foaming at the trans breather. I have to wonder if the crack had something to do with the foam? They said that Chryslers ATF+4 was specifically designed not to foam. I would have to think that Amsoil should be as good or better in this dept. Am I wrong?

They said they are willing to switch it back to Amsoil if I want them to.

Amsoil's tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Pablo?
 
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nuskool,

AMSOIL ATF has a very high quality additive system which includes anti-foaming quality. In the standard ASTM D-892 Foam Tendency test (Seq I, II and III) it did not have any foam and recorded these numbers 0/0, 0/0, 0/0. The first number in each Seq is the foam in ml during the test and the second number for each Seq is the foam in ml after 10 min settle time. So you can see AMSOIL ATF cannot get any better for anti-foaming quality.

Hope this helps,
Kevin Dinwiddie
AMSOIL Corporate
 
Adding in sequence IV sometimes helps to sort the men from the boys, as does repeating the test on used fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: nuskool
I just got a new trans in our 02 PT Cruiser. Under warranty. Had a cracked case. (I have no idea how that happens) Anyway I had Amsoil in the last one and asked them to put it in the new one. They said they chose not to because they saw some foaming at the trans breather. I have to wonder if the crack had something to do with the foam? They said that Chryslers ATF+4 was specifically designed not to foam. I would have to think that Amsoil should be as good or better in this dept. Am I wrong?

They said they are willing to switch it back to Amsoil if I want them to.

Amsoil's tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Pablo?


No you are not wrong. They are totally full of krahp. I could rant for hours about DXC's greedy proprietary ATF SCAM and their brainless techs and crooked stealerships.

/rant
 
Paper? I dooooohn't neeeeeeeeed no stinkeen paper.
55.gif


I have been running Amsoil in my A604 for three years now. I have had absolutely no problems, what-so-ever, in three years of extremely severe service.

Papers are like statistics. They can be made to say anything. My own experience, with DXC ATF, their "service" and stealerships, overrides any "paper".
 
Originally Posted By: Oilgal
Paper? I dooooohn't neeeeeeeeed no stinkeen paper.
55.gif


I have been running Amsoil in my A604 for three years now. I have had absolutely no problems, what-so-ever, in three years of extremely severe service.

Papers are like statistics. They can be made to say anything. My own experience, with DXC ATF, their "service" and stealerships, overrides any "paper".

What you consider severe service may not actually be considered severe service. This is why many multi-vehicle fluids do fine. Most owners never operate the vehicles under conditions where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed.

For instance, if you just drove to the grocery store once-a-week, I'm sure tractor fluid would work fine too.
wink.gif
 
I may not know much. But I do know what I am talking about. My ATX has definitely been abused in every single way. What I have put mine through over the last three years, would have killed any brand spankin new OEM stock A604, if it was running overpriced over hyped DXC garbage ATF. Now while my A604 is a bit "spruced up" (race hardened and modded), I seriously doubt it would be performing like the day it was rebuilt as it does now, had I been running ATF +4.

Trust me dear boy. You put the wrong ATF in an A604, and it will croak on you, faster than a frog in a blender, no matter how easy you are on them.
 
If you think Chrysler is above doing less than right by their customers, to protect their bottom line, then you have never dealt with them with open eyes.

Here is a perfect example. Do you know what they did, for ATX cooling, in the second generation Town&Country/Caravan/Voyager minivan series 1992-1995? They routed ATF from the ATX, to a "cooler" inside the drivers side radiator end tank, then back to the ATX. That meant that your ATF was never cooler than the engine radiator coolant. What a great idea right? Well, yes it is, if you want to trash the cheesy ATF+3 they were running in those years, and make money servicing and rebuilding A604s.

Heat kills any ATF. You think they just couldn't figure out that a forward mounted ATF cooler, before the radiator, would greatly prolong the lifespan of an A604 ATX?

They even claimed that my 1995 A604 would hang in second, if the ATF was "over cooled", by my big fm B&M ATF cooler, when my ATX guy bypassed the radiator "cooler". Now either they were STUPID and just didn't know that 'their' 1995 A604s have a built in temp bypass valve on the outlet to the external cooler, to prevent "over cooling" the ATF, or they out and out LIED. Either way it is clear that their "papers", no matter who they pay to write for them, are not worth spit.

/rant

don't get me started
 
Originally Posted By: nuskool
I just got a new trans in our 02 PT Cruiser. Under warranty. Had a cracked case. (I have no idea how that happens) Anyway I had Amsoil in the last one and asked them to put it in the new one. They said they chose not to because they saw some foaming at the trans breather. I have to wonder if the crack had something to do with the foam? They said that Chryslers ATF+4 was specifically designed not to foam. I would have to think that Amsoil should be as good or better in this dept. Am I wrong?

They said they are willing to switch it back to Amsoil if I want them to.

Amsoil's tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Pablo?


I just now saw this thread. I think there is insufficient information to draw conclusions.

First of all - a cracked case? What? Bad design? Bad metallurgy? That has to be rare? (right?)

"some" foam at the breather? How much? How much water got it? Was the fluid 100% Amsoil ATF, or was it the usual mix in the tranny? How many miles on the fluid?

Many questions. I've actually NEVER seen Amsoil ATF foam. Not sure why Critic has to whip that paper out every time, but I've been VERY close to Amsoil ATF for 9 years. (maybe not as close as BadASP) I've been involved in some very much extreme uses, rad. cooler leaks, hyper extended ATF OCI's, super duty crazy towing usage, etc - no foam.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: nuskool
I just got a new trans in our 02 PT Cruiser. Under warranty. Had a cracked case. (I have no idea how that happens) Anyway I had Amsoil in the last one and asked them to put it in the new one. They said they chose not to because they saw some foaming at the trans breather. I have to wonder if the crack had something to do with the foam? They said that Chryslers ATF+4 was specifically designed not to foam. I would have to think that Amsoil should be as good or better in this dept. Am I wrong?

They said they are willing to switch it back to Amsoil if I want them to.

Amsoil's tech support hasn't gotten back to me yet.

Pablo?


I just now saw this thread. I think there is insufficient information to draw conclusions.

First of all - a cracked case? What? Bad design? Bad metallurgy? That has to be rare? (right?)

"some" foam at the breather? How much? How much water got it? Was the fluid 100% Amsoil ATF, or was it the usual mix in the tranny? How many miles on the fluid?

Many questions. I've actually NEVER seen Amsoil ATF foam. Not sure why Critic has to whip that paper out every time, but I've been VERY close to Amsoil ATF for 9 years. (maybe not as close as BadASP) I've been involved in some very much extreme uses, rad. cooler leaks, hyper extended ATF OCI's, super duty crazy towing usage, etc - no foam.


Wow, I thought this thread was dead.
Anyway. Should have been at least 90% Amsoil. Not sure about any water or exactly how much foam. About 35k on the trans and 20k on the Amsoil.

To add a note, this was the 2nd trans this car had seen (now on the 3rd) This tranny never "felt" right to me. Nothing I could place my finger on but the shifts just didn't seem right and the mpg wasn't as good as the first trans. Now already seeing better mpg with the new one and the shifts feel better.

Was there some stress in the tranny that caused a crack? I don't know. No one ever will.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not sure why Critic has to whip that paper out every time.


I would assume that the reason Critic has 'whipped that paper out' is because it contains test results, not opinions, not hearsay, but actual data.
 
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Not sure why Critic has to whip that paper out every time.


I would assume that the reason Critic has 'whipped that paper out' is because it contains test results, not opinions, not hearsay, but actual data.


Relevant data is useful.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Relevant data is useful.


Well I'm glad you agree with me because that's what I thought since the D892 foam test is an industry standard test for the evaluation of foam performance in lubricants.
 
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That's fair enough because one of the things that we have to remember (I think I mentioned it earlier) is that the new oil foam characteristics are one thing but those characteristics can change dramatically as fluid becomes contaminated during use.
 
Three years now on Amsoil, in my finicky A604, with no problems of any kind. In fact my ATX never functioned nearly as well on any other ATF. So I don't care what the paper says.
 
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Adding in sequence IV sometimes helps to sort the men from the boys, as does repeating the test on used fluid.

Are these results available for DexVI?
 
Yes. They are in the 'dreaded paper' that Critic quoted.

Seq.I 0/0
Seq.II 0/0
Seq.III 0/0
Seq.IV 30/0

You have to bear in mind the repeatability of the test when trying to interpret the results. On tendency anything below a 50 is good. What you NEVER want is ANY value on stability.
 
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