First tow/with 2023 Silverado 5.3 - Total trip 539 miles

[CKN]

So-As some of you know I purchase a 2023 -Crew Cab Silverado (dealer Demo 6,500 miles) with the 5.3 and 10 speed transmission. I traded in a 2020 F 150 with the 3.5 and 10 speed transmission.

First tow with my 5,000 pound 30- foot travel trailer attached. From Salt lake City , Utah to Thayne, Wyoming (Jackson Hole area). The refinement of the 10 speed in the Silverado to what ever Ford did with theirs continues to impress. Pulling up a 6,000 foot pass with the cruise control engaged and tow haul mode required no manual gear select by the driver. The truck maintained a transmission temperature of between 159 degrees and 173 degrees with 100 degree ambient temperature. The transmission kept the truck in the ideal rpm range.

Not quite as powerful that the 3.5-but absolutely no trouble doing the job. The only downside was the Ford had the "towing package" which is basically a 36 gallon fuel tank included. The Siiverado has a 24 gallon tank, thus more frequent fuel stops, especially when towing.

 

[PontiacHO]

Thanks for your review-post. GMC-Chevy trucks with the 5.3 have had their share of hate. If the haters stopped and realized that the 5.3 is used in law enforcement Tahoes, retail Tahoe-Surburban-pickups, and full size vans they would then realize this engine is on the road by the millions. Perhaps I’m saying they should consider a per capita assessment of problems as compared to every other manufacturer out there.

 

[GMBoy]

Thank you for sharing that real world experience. I knew the 3.5TT was more powerful but also knew the 5.3 was capable overall. I think it sucks to have that small of a tank when towing. My Ram has a 32 or 36 (can't remember) gal tank. Both motors do the job and they each have their own issues so we just have to choose your poison lol.

 

[21_6.7f450]

You said something that makes me ask a serious question. The GM trans runs ~160-175*, much cooler than the Ford 10r80 of 30* or more. Could GMs strategy of keeping the trans cooler than Ford be the key for Ford's issues of the 10R? Is it heat related.
Wilson, how hot does your 10L1000 run empty and pulling?
Just trying to connect the dots here. Maybe the solution to the 10r60/80/140 is making them run 160-175*. It's nothing foe a 10r140 to run 235*+. That's 60-75* warmer than the GM using the same viscosity.

 

[cptbarkey]

You said something that makes me ask a serious question. The GM trans runs ~160-175*, much cooler than the Ford 10r80 of 30* or more. Could GMs strategy of keeping the trans cooler than Ford be the key for Ford's issues of the 10R? Is it heat related.
Wilson, how hot does your 10L1000 run empty and pulling?
Just trying to connect the dots here. Maybe the solution to the 10r60/80/140 is making them run 160-175*. It's nothing foe a 10r140 to run 235*+. That's 60-75* warmer than the GM using the same viscosity.

Toyota trucks and SUVs run about 200-220 degrees as well, and can have a fancy thermostat setup to regulate. My older Silverado is cold blooded though and if it approaches that temp then it may be concerning.

I am not sure when transmission engineering and atf temp fluid temperatures changed to where the higher temperature is normal, but would like to know more myself.

 

[21_6.7f450]

Aren't these transmissions co-developed? They use the the same fluid. I don't have a graph in front of me but I would wager the GM's fluid is a bit thicker at temp since it is cooler. Can this be the source of the CDF bushing issues. It seems like it's a wear issue, then the bushing slips out. Would a thicker fluid via a cooler running transmission prevent that? The same with the valve body cross leaking. Is this a wear issue that could be solved by a cooler fluid?..IE thicker Mercon/Dexron ULV
The 10r and 10l are different than the trans in the Toyotas.

 

[hemioiler]

Aren't these transmissions co-developed? They use the the same fluid. I don't have a graph in front of me but I would wager the GM's fluid is a bit thicker at temp since it is cooler. Can this be the source of the CDF bushing issues. It seems like it's a wear issue, then the bushing slips out. Would a thicker fluid via a cooler running transmission prevent that? The same with the valve body cross leaking. Is this a wear issue that could be solved by a cooler fluid?..IE thicker Mercon/Dexron ULV
The 10r and 10l are different than the trans in the Toyotas.

It's not really "co-developed". Ford built it, GM takes the physical bits and puts their own software/tuning on top of it.

In turn, GM developed a 9 speed which Ford was going to use but ended up not using. So they shared costs the costs with eachother of developing a 9 and 10 speed.

 

[21_6.7f450]

So that would put my theory of cooling as a probability then. If GM took the Ford designed transmission and changed the software and runs it cooler. GM doesn't have NEAR the drum and valve body failures as Ford does. If it's the same transmission physically, tuning and temp are the key differences as to why GM is not having issues with it.
I'd like to see someone run the 10r80 or 10r140 at 160-175*. I'd wager failure would be almost nothing.

 

[CKN]

You said something that makes me ask a serious question. The GM trans runs ~160-175*, much cooler than the Ford 10r80 of 30* or more. Could GMs strategy of keeping the trans cooler than Ford be the key for Ford's issues of the 10R? Is it heat related.
Wilson, how hot does your 10L1000 run empty and pulling?
Just trying to connect the dots here. Maybe the solution to the 10r60/80/140 is making them run 160-175*. It's nothing foe a 10r140 to run 235*+. That's 60-75* warmer than the GM using the same viscosity.

The Ford ten speeds (prior to August of 2021) has two design issues. It's a defective parts issue (CDF drum, sometimes valve body). No cooling, no transmission fluid changes, etc., is going to help it. Nice critical thinking however.

 

[CKN]

Toyota trucks and SUVs run about 200-220 degrees as well, and can have a fancy thermostat setup to regulate. My older Silverado is cold blooded though and if it approaches that temp then it may be concerning.

I am not sure when transmission engineering and atf temp fluid temperatures changed to where the higher temperature is normal, but would like to know more myself.

The six speeds in the previous generation Silverados ran/run warm and widespread failures were not a thing. The shifting was not butter smooth-but they didn't fail-to any large degree.
I had one (2018 Silverado)-changed the fluid at 50,000 miles ( majority of that towing-5,000 pounds) and the fluid-while not tested, visually looked real good.

 

[21_6.7f450]

I'm not totally convinced that's true if GM uses the same transmission. It might be marginal parts that GM with their software and cooling strategies figured out how to keep it together. Otherwise GM 10spds of a few years ago would be plastered all over the internet as junk. That simply not the case. WWilson's truck should have the CDF issue, if that is true. Isn't it a 2021? Shouldn't early GM 10spd trucks be parked outside transmission shops everywhere. That simply isn't the case here they don't have any common issues.
I'm talking 10spds Ford and Chevy. The 6spd Chevy and Toyota transmissions are irrelevant here.
Unless you want to compare goats to horses..IE GM 6spd to 10spds....well I'll go first both are transmissions..I mean both have four legs.
10spd Ford VS 10spd Chevy one has issues and one is nearly problem free. Why??? GO!
ITS THE SAME TRANSMISSION according to many here, with different tuning and operating temps. The key differences are the tunes and temps...is it not?

 

[CKN]

I'm not totally convinced that's true if GM uses the same transmission. It might be marginal parts that GM with their software and cooling strategies figured out how to keep it together. Otherwise GM 10spds of a few years ago would be plastered all over the internet as junk. That simply not the case. WWilson's truck should have the CDF issue, if that is true. Isn't it a 2021? Shouldn't early GM 10spd trucks be parked outside transmission shops everywhere. That simply isn't the case here they don't have any common issues.

I am not familiar with the exact parts differences. But I have read on various places on the Internet (for what that is worth) there are both hardware (different suppliers) and software (obviously) differences that do not make them identical. And myself-now owning both back to back-cannot comprehend how they could be related.

 

[21_6.7f450]

Interesting. So they are infact different? That shoots my temp and tuning theory down.
I'm done. I'll see myself out.

 

[97prizm]

So-As some of you know I purchase a 2023 -Crew Cab Silverado (dealer Demo 6,500 miles) with the 5.3 and 10 speed transmission. I traded in a 2020 F 150 with the 3.5 and 10 speed transmission.

First tow with my 5,000 pound 30- foot travel trailer attached. From Salt lake City , Utah to Thayne, Wyoming (Jackson Hole area). The refinement of the 10 speed in the Silverado to what ever Ford did with theirs continues to impress. Pulling up a 6,000 foot pass with the cruise control engaged and tow haul mode required no manual gear select by the driver. The truck maintained a transmission temperature of between 159 degrees and 173 degrees with 100 degree ambient temperature. The transmission kept the truck in the ideal rpm range.

Not quite as powerful that the 3.5-but absolutely no trouble doing the job. The only downside was the Ford had the "towing package" which is basically a 36 gallon fuel tank included. The Siiverado has a 24 gallon tank, thus more frequent fuel stops, especially when towing.

Is there a bigger gas tank option that would fit, or thar is offeredby GM? If so would you have to recalibrate anything so the vehicle would know it has a larger tank?

 

[CKN]

Is there a bigger gas tank option that would fit, or thar is offeredby GM? If so would you have to recalibrate anything so the vehicle would know it has a larger tank?

There are aftermarket tanks that require modifications to the truck. But of course-a larger fuel tank will affect payload numbers. No larger ones offered on the half-tons by GM to my knowledge.
So yea-with the OEM tank you are looking for a gas station before 200 miles. You have to find a station, then you have to find a station you can get in and out of.
The gas/stations with mini marts are not my best friend-especially in the West where Real Estate tends to be a premium-the gas stations are more compact. If you can't get a pump at the end-you need to go somewhere else.

 

[AZjeff]

What was your gas mileage like ford vs Chevy?

When we travel I spend time planning gas stops and look at satellite image looking for lots of room around the gas island. Rather do that than find out I can’t fit. Had a couple like that early on. Prefer Loves if we’re rolling interstates.

 

[CKN]

What was your gas mileage like ford vs Chevy?

When we travel I spend time planning gas stops and look at satellite image looking for lots of room around the gas island. Rather do that than find out I can’t fit. Had a couple like that early on. Prefer Loves if we’re rolling interstates.

I got 9 towing with the Ford. I averaged 12 with the Silverado-over the 500 miles, but thought I had some favorable tailwinds on one leg of the trip. Non towing on the Silverado was 26.5 mpg over a 100 miles-in and out Of Jackson Hole. Never got over 25 with the Ford. Not drastic Ford vs. GM as far as gas mpg.

I stated this before on here-but in my experience-regardless of motor/manufacturer (Ford, GM, RAM,) 10 mpg when towing seems to be the rule-as far as gas motors-highway, no winds.
And yes-usually Love, Pilots,etc. But I have stopped at Loves where the mini market was right up against the pumps (almost) and made filling up, except for the end pumps impossible, more than once.

The real winners are any stations that have a couple of gas islands with the big rig diesel islands in back of the store.

 

[AZjeff]

With over 20k miles towing all over the country the Sierra HD 6.6 gas is at exactly 10 mpg towing. Good to hear you're happy with the towing ability of the new truck.

The older love's don't have much room, we're making a list of them.

 

[meep]

I'm not totally convinced that's true if GM uses the same transmission. It might be marginal parts that GM with their software and cooling strategies figured out how to keep it together. Otherwise GM 10spds of a few years ago would be plastered all over the internet as junk. That simply not the case. WWilson's truck should have the CDF issue, if that is true. Isn't it a 2021? Shouldn't early GM 10spd trucks be parked outside transmission shops everywhere. That simply isn't the case here they don't have any common issues.
I'm talking 10spds Ford and Chevy. The 6spd Chevy and Toyota transmissions are irrelevant here.
Unless you want to compare goats to horses..IE GM 6spd to 10spds....well I'll go first both are transmissions..I mean both have four legs.
10spd Ford VS 10spd Chevy one has issues and one is nearly problem free. Why??? GO!
ITS THE SAME TRANSMISSION according to many here, with different tuning and operating temps. The key differences are the tunes and temps...is it not?

I’ve read a ton on this. Rebuilder sites say they were designed together but assembled separately. The only notable differences are small adjustments to things like tabs or mounting points, so I’ve read. The shift strategies are different and GM makes theirs feel like a different unit because of it. GM isn’t having the proclivity of CDF drum problems, but are having torque converter issues. The TC issues allegedly might be mitigated with fluid changes. GM replacement cost is $10k, per a friend who’s TC just sent shrapnel through his GM ten speed this spring with 110k miles on it, mostly highway.

I’ve been wondering if they really get the same fluid. There are assumptions that they do, but I’m not convinced. Mine runs better hot, but it’s also had problems since 18k, has a slifhtly thickened mix of ATF in it plus lubeguard.

 

[clinebarger]

The six speeds in the previous generation Silverados ran/run warm and widespread failures were not a thing. The shifting was not butter smooth-but they didn't fail-to any large degree.
I had one (2018 Silverado)-changed the fluid at 50,000 miles ( majority of that towing-5,000 pounds) and the fluid-while not tested, visually looked real good.

6L80E's don't normally fail within 100,000, But failure rate goes up exponentially after that.