Filter size question

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Bill_W

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My new 2019 Miata will get a few oil change, one at 1000, one at 3000 and one at 6000. The Baldwin filter finder gave me a number of a small filter that is 2 5/8" tall but cross referenced 2 taller models that may fit. A 3.5" tall and a 4"tall, all three has a bypass setting of 14 PSI. If a larger filter would fit, anything I am missing on getting the larger models?
 
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Just make sure it has room for the longer length and that it does not stick out where it could get hit by something and damaged.
 
It's likely not needed at all.

Are you just trying to achieve the lowest "Delta P" across the media by going larger?
 
Unless you're looking to use a filter for way past the normal interval it probably ain't ever gonna make a difference using an over sized filter. It's easiest to just use the filter it's supposed to have and not worry.
If a filter ever overloads during the suggested ofi you ate probably do for an overhaul.
Those miatas are among the most reliable sports cars, all around, ever made by the way. Probably among the most reliable cars of any type actually.
 
Originally Posted by Linctex
It's likely not needed at all.

Are you just trying to achieve the lowest "Delta P" across the media by going larger?


Seems that would be better, but am I missing something there?
 
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As many say, best to use the specified sized filter on a car under warranty. Some car manufacturers will dig for any excuse to deny warranty on an engine problem if one occurs.
 
I purchased an XG3600 to replace the XG4967 on my Toyota Echo. But I do find myself wondering if the oil will be pumped through a filter 3 times the size as efficiently.

Obviously it will be filtering the oil no problem, but I picture the oil circulating through the tiny filter in a constant vortex. And then in the large filter I picture the oil circulating around the opening fast but possibly sitting at the bottom of the giant filter somewhat undisturbed.

Maybe I need a clear filter to watch the oil circulate.
 
Having worked on older model Miatas, they're pretty tight under the hood so a bigger filter may not be a great idea! Especially if you have gorilla hands like me. I can't imagine the new Miata being any less compact than the older ones, probably more, in fact!
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
As many say, best to use the specified sized filter on a car under warranty. Some car manufacturers will dig for any excuse to deny warranty on an engine problem if one occurs.

This is excellent advice.

Larger filters have not been proven to alter wear rates appreciably in a sense that we'd ever be able to ascertain. There is "theory" that a larger filter will hold more capacity (true) and filter better (arguable at best) and cool the lube more (what happens in winter?), etc .... But no one has been able to show that this matters in modern equipment. Going larger does not really present major advances in wear control, and that's the real concern, isn't it? In fact, I'd argue that there's not even minor advances. The general variation of daily wear far exceeds any improvement one might hope for by using a larger filter.

Choosing a filter that is not spec'd by the maker opens one up to the challenges of the M/M act (Magnuson/Moss warranty act). When you use a product in a condition not specified by the maker, then the burden of proof of proper use shifts from the maker to YOU, the consumer. They can easily delay, and often outright deny, coverage until you would force them in court (more likely, arbitration) to prove you know more about their product engineering specs and application than they do. Good luck with that!

I would admit that if MUCH LONGER OCIs are your goal, then a larger filter would be a good idea to offest the loading/capacity issue, but honestly if you're concerned about warranty (OEM or filter or oil), then you should not be doing this in the first place!

Risk? Absolutely exists.
Reward? Theoretical at best.

Caveat Emptor.
 
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I had to run larger filter on my Nissan rogue QR25DE to get rid of excessive engine noise in the winter up here in the North East. Plus that car specs 30 grade oil. No Filter cans for me that wouldnt even make do as a fuel filter! Small filters have been absolutely CONFIRMED as the cause for excessive engine noise in many of my vehicles.

But all may be NP in your SoCal.location with a 20 grade spec on your oil cap.

Does the Miata spec 20 grade?

Also if the MX-5 still uses the "Universal Asian" (minus Toyota) filter, e.g: Nissan,Honda, Subaru,Hyundai/Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi?
If so the Mobil 1 M110A (Champ Labs) is a solid choice as is the FRAM Toughguard equivalent. ( Spec 2014 Nissan Armada/Titan V8)

My personal favourite in this group is the Honda S2000 spec filter mfg FILTECH o.e. It is pricey.
 
Just for conversation...
Does a filter increase efficiency as it loads up? Is there a reason that a Miata oil filter is designed small?

The 2019 Miata takes 0w-20 in USA Canada and Puerto Rico. 5w30 in Mexico and if you can not find that you can use 5w-20.
Is that choice related to average temp?
 
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No, filter efficiency does NOT increase as it loads until just before the filter is completely plugged. ZeeOSix posted a study that shows filter efficiency actually decreases as a filter is loaded, until it is around 99% full, at which point efficiency increases sharply, then the bypass opens shortly after because the filter is plugged.

My main reason for using larger filters is mainly related to PSID and flow rate thru the media. Given the same oil flow, a lower PSID across and flow rate thru the media "should" help improve filtering efficiency. Plus, since all of my Subaru's have small sump capacities, I think it's beneficial somewhat to add a pint of additional oil, even though deep down I know it's really only a placebo.
smile.gif
 
Easier to cold flow due to increased media area. More oil in circulation means more oil to deal with hot spots. There is a reason many truck and boat engines run 8 qt systems, it's easier on the oil barbecue it sits in the sump and can longer shedding heat.

If it'll fit, I always go for the oversized filter. Usually the same price, so why not add area and volume ...
 
Originally Posted by Bill_W
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
As many say, best to use the specified sized filter on a car under warranty. Some car manufacturers will dig for any excuse to deny warranty on an engine problem if one occurs.


https://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0138-auto-warranties-routine-maintenance


Point was that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act does not really apply to parts that are not specified for your vehicle. That's what the dealer may use as leverage to deny a warranty if they determined the filter was the cause of any engine related failure/damage.
 
[/quote]
Point was that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act does not really apply to parts that are not specified for your vehicle. That's what the dealer may use as leverage to deny a warranty if they determined the filter was the cause of any engine related failure/damage.
[/quote]

I got a different view regarding aftermarket parts as I read the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. Before a car manufacturer could void your warranty if you used anything aftermarket on the vehicle, after the act the manufacturer had to prove that the part had done damage to the vehicle. But one interesting point is during the warranty period a car manufacturer offered free oil and filter change during the warranty and you did not use it then they could void your warranty. The key word is free.
 
[/quote]
Point was that the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act does not really apply to parts that are not specified for your vehicle. That's what the dealer may use as leverage to deny a warranty if they determined the filter was the cause of any engine related failure/damage.
[/quote]

I got a different view regarding aftermarket parts as I read the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. Before a car manufacturer could void your warranty if you used anything aftermarket on the vehicle, after the act the manufacturer had to prove that the part had done damage to the vehicle. But one interesting point is during the warranty period a car manufacturer offered free oil and filter change during the warranty and you did not use it then they could void your warranty. The key word is free.

Per the .gov page
Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?
No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. The manufacturer or dealer can, however, require consumers to use select parts if those parts are provided to consumers free of charge under the warranty.

Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.
 
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Give your dealership's service department a call and ask if an oil filter that is not specified for your car was used, and it caused engine damage, would Mazda cover it under warranty.

And the filter makers in their warranty statement will also say that they will not cover any engine damage if a non-specified filter is used.

There's a difference between using the correctly specified aftermarket parts vs. parts that are not specified for the vehicle when it comes to warranty coverage.

We all know the risk of using an over-sized filter (if the correct over sized filter is used) is pretty slim. Just saying if for some strange reason the wrong filter did cause damage you'd be in a pickle trying to get the car manufacturer or the filter maker to cover the repairs. It's a small risk anyone going over-sized on a car under warranty needs to understand and consider.
 
Got it...
Still Mazda has to prove the aftermarket part did the damage. Then it would have to go to the aftermarket filter company to pay for the damage per their warranty. And they will say that they recommended the small filter. Still is interesting that a car manufacturer can deny a warranty if you used another type of oil, if they offered free oil changes.
 
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[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

This was my experience in running a Fram Ultra in a BMW in early 2018. Thing came apart like it was make out of oil soluble glue.

Maybe Fram now has this under control.

Jay Buckley, any input on this failure?
 
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