Filter Life

railball · May 22, 2005

One of our experts made this statement: Most oil filter media and binders/adhesives degrade over time, which is one of the reasons you change the oil filter. The over time is open to debate but many on this board leave a filter in for a year and according to the AMSOIL site 6 months is long enough. Now they could be saying that to sell more filters but the size of filters today and the stuff they put in oil I will stick with no more than 6 months or till the oil gets very dirty.I have gone away from the $1.50 filters for at least perceived better quality ones including the Toyota or Nissan OEM.So am I right to change more often unless I have duel filter setup.

pajim17057 · May 22, 2005

I think a filter sould be good for at most 10,000 miles. That is considering its a good quality filter.

Curious Kid · May 22, 2005

Aside form discussing mileage, how about the part that says "over time?" 6 months, a year...chemical soak?

Interesting.

Filter guy · May 23, 2005

You might want to check but most owners manuals have a time OR mileage figure.

What happens if granny only drives to the store and church and put 2,000 miles per year on her car..would you expect a honda filter to last 4 years?

People focus on the mileage but forget there is also a time interval as well.

TR3-2001SE · May 23, 2005

Honda says a filter is good for two changes. There severe schedule is 3750 so under severe conditions good for 7500 miles. Under normal conditions good for 15,000 miles. I believe the filter guy says most filter or at most half used up when changed so all this leads me to believe 12,000 would be just fine with a good filter and a resonable clean engine.

dag · May 23, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TR3-2001SE:
Honda says a filter is good for two changes.

And, get this, Honda specs the same filter on the 4-cylinder engines (which have a longer OCI than the 6-cylinder) for 10,000 mile severe/20,000 mile normal intervals. Yow.

Mr Nice · May 23, 2005

Filter Guy,

Is it possible for the paper media inside the filter to fall apart (like a wet paper towel) if you go past 15,000 miles ??

My wife's Honda currently has 17,000 miles on an oversized Purolator filter that is 8 months old.

CBR.worm · May 23, 2005

Is there any reason not to change the filter at every oil change?

Bamaro · May 23, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by CBR.worm:
Is there any reason not to change the filter at every oil change?

Necessity?

Winston · May 23, 2005

quote:

Is there any reason not to change the filter at every oil change?

Cost

lubeowner · May 24, 2005

In my experience the higher cost better quality filters will last longer. It has become very apparent to me that the low cost filters from certain manufacturers are designed for 3K drain intervals. The problem is that according to our industry surveys the average person goes 5K. Many vehicle manufacturers are posting 10K even 15K drain intervals. The poorly built filters WILL NOT LAST THAT LONG. I have seen Motorcraft, Wix, Purolator, Hastings, etc. easily stand up to neglect, sludge, and other adverse conditions. I think a silicone ADBV is a must for extended drains, and a good strong evenly spaced pleat construction, using a quality(durable)media.

Filter guy · May 24, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
Filter Guy,

Is it possible for the paper media inside the filter to fall apart (like a wet paper towel) if you go past 15,000 miles ??

My wife's Honda currently has 17,000 miles on an oversized Purolator filter that is 8 months old.

I'm not clear if your saying the wifes car has run 15,000 miles between changes or it's just been on there 8 months.. I take it the latter.

In any event:

The reason for filter media to disintergrate as you suggest would be down to either water or coolant being present in the oil.

However, if the filter plugs because of excessive use past the recommended oil change interval, then you run the risk of a filter collapse situation.

A lot depends on the efficiency of the media and the dirt holding capacity.

What can also can happen if you allow oil to remain to long before you change, is the oil can become acidic. Which leads to problems as well. Such as your rubber components ( and not just in the filter), maybe the glues in the endcaps, and the media could be effected.

You might want to do oil analysis when you change your wifes cars oil and filter...

wavinwayne · May 24, 2005

Once again, it's

rg144 · May 24, 2005

Here are my latest 2 filters cut open. The Bosch on the left was on for 7500 miles in my Buick. The SuperTech on the right was on for 3000 miles in my minivan.

There were no ruptures in the ST. But which media held up better? Would the ST go another 3000 miles????

I can see both sides in the argument on this thread. I would guess most would hang in there. Yet ...

Form your own opinion but for me I would want glass reinforced media (in this case the Bosch) for extended drains.

labman · May 24, 2005

rg144, which grade of Bosch? The champion made ones or the high priced spread?

Filter guy · May 24, 2005

rg144 :

Do you still have the two filters? If so, can you count the pleats.

What you will probably find, generally, is that the less expensive element has less pleats. A more expensive element will have more. ( when comparing filters of the same thickness of media )

If a filter has less pleats, the pleat spacing already contains some "gaps". When oil enters the element..those gaps can become more "exagerated".

Then when you cut open a filter, it "doesn't look as good" with the pleat spacing. As your Warner does.

The key is, as long as the media stays in tact it is doing it's job. It just may not be pretty when it does it.

You can always cut open a new Warner filter and see if there are the gaps present. They won't be as bad as the after useage.

The more pleats ( with same thickness of media) the more dirt holding capacity and "safety" factor for those not chaning oil at the recommmended OEM change interval.

However, filter companies also know you can jam to many pleats into the same area. Which causes more intital restriction and other problems with useage.

Gary Allan · May 24, 2005

I've editted out the nasties and left what I felt was cogent dialog. Feel free to continue on with this thread in peaceful debate.

My opinions/comments

I think that we can all follow this basic belief when it comes to oil filters.

In all others aside from Fram: You "tend" to get what you pay for. Any filter can have manufacturing defects and some designs tend to show insult over others in higher frequency. Your results may vary. Any filter can fail in the wrong situation. Some will fail before others in endurance testing. This incidence of failure may, or may not, correspond to their cost ..but typically will. Manufacturing defects aside, each filter has a "design envelope" of reasonable service expectation. We don't know what that is, but we can reasonably assume that the cheaper the filter, the shorter, or smaller, that envelope will be.

All manufacturers offer multiple quality levels of filters. Each has a lowball, good, better, and best offering. Some of the premier filters, are offered by the same manufacturers of the lowest of the lowball. This leads us to the sensible conclusion that one company can both be the best and the worst manufacturer of oil filters in terms of in field endurance/performance results.

Getting back to the original question and some of its sub-elements ....

Although I feel that Amsoil's filters are typically of higher quality, and can go great distances, I believe the 6 month swap interval is to allow the replacement of depleted additives. The swapping of the filter is the easiest way for a customer to do this. There's also Amsoil's (I think) "non-limit" to the mileage that one can accumulate during that 6 months (since it's 25k/1 year) we can assume that the filter can be in use from ZERO to 12.5k miles and still be following their recommendation).

That is, one (if my slant has any merit) can not really read anything into the lack of endurance capability based on Amsoil's 6 month recommendation.

wayne:

[ May 25, 2005, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

Gary Allan · May 25, 2005

Gentlemen:

Please look at the topic heading and the questions the author presented. Please further our goal to provide useful information as a courtesy to the fellow member that is seeking it.

Although some may find this entertaining in a "dark comedy" sorta way, it tends to wreak havoc for those who are just trying to get simple (or complex) answers to simple (or complex) questons.

(Yes, there is still a very BIG SMILE on my face

)

rg144 · May 25, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by labman:
which grade of Bosch? The champion made ones or the high priced spread?

I think it's Champion when there a 6 large holes (I left out the ADBV in the pics). It was $5.99 at Autozone (free after rebate deal) - the box said 'Filtech' system, glass fibers reinforced.

There were 53 pleats in Bosch, 55 in ST (but it's a much larger filter). I cut the media apart in both filters and they both were solid and well attached at the ends. I saw absolutely no ruptures, gaps, sliced pleats in the ST-16.

Filter guy · May 25, 2005

Was there a "country of origin" on the Bosch?

Filter Life

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