Fighting Traffic Tickets

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I just recently found out that my lovely little county here in WV considers traffic citations, no matter how small to be Misdemeanors!! I applied for a high level job awhile back and they found misdemeanors on my record with no explanation! It took me weeks to get that one sorted out and almost lost the job! Come to find out, as of 2014 Hampshire Co WV made all traffic offenses misdemeanors and didn't bother to tell anyone! They don't realize the repercussions this has on a persons life, job, etc! I've lost all respect for the local police as well as magistrates, judges and so on. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that its "legal extortion" and they thrive on it!

My last court appearance for "failure to yield" resulted in a the prosecutor cutting me off in the middle of my statement and asking me "why are you here today" I simply said "to prove my innocence and to make you work for your money as I had to" He responded with " wouldn't it have just been easier to send your fine in and not go to all this trouble?"

Traffic citations and parking tickets are big business, they are counted on in a town/cities budget and if you think there aren't "
quotas" you're crazy...
 
In NY if you show up at court, they will often downgrade the ticket (with a clean record). It will save you both in points and $$. But you get hit for court costs.

For insurance the best suggestion is to ignore the renewal questionnaire. What ever they find out is whatever they find out. They do not need help from you. Don't lie, just ignore.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


And if a police officer is not around to witness your mistake, you can always make your own ticket.
 
You can argue these to the moon and back and you'll never win.

Don't waste your $ on a lawyer unless you're about to lose your license or committed a serious crime.

Show up well dressed, plead not guilty and present your case, and take whatever offer the DA gives you. Pay the fine and move on, hopefully slower than before.
 
I don't agree with the people in this thread stating it is idiotic to not fight a traffic ticket. It really depends on the situation.

For example, I got caught rolling through a stop sign. It was dark, snowing, on an unfamiliar road, and the sign was half covered in snow. The officer (who happened to be following me) claimed I could still see the reflective strip on the pole, so I should've stopped. Since I was polite and honest, he knocked it down to "failure to read signs" or something instead of a moving violation. The ticket was $98.

On the back of the ticket, it says that if I fight and lose, I get a point on my license. If I pay it, everything goes away. It made more sense to pay the $98, not risk losing and getting a point, and not missing a day of work. Sure I could take the day off but my few vacation days aren't worth $98.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
On the back of the ticket, it says that if I fight and lose, I get a point on my license. If I pay it, everything goes away. It made more sense to pay the $98, not risk losing and getting a point, and not missing a day of work. Sure I could take the day off but my few vacation days aren't worth $98.


Given those circumstances, I'd pay as well.

In fact, my submitting of a Trial by Written Declaration is an attempt to get the fine to a level more like yours, if not dismissed altogether, instead of the $299 + traffic school option that I've been given.

All without going to court.

In your case, even though it made sense to pay the $98, it doesn't change the fact that the ticket you got was unfair. Heavy snow, dark, very low visibility.

Nor does it change the fact that being told that you WILL be punished more if you exercise your right to defend yourself in a trial, borders on extortion, and is done precisely to persuade people to pay the fine rather than defend themselves in court.

What the state has done is to set the fines high, but not too high, and offer sweeteners ie no points and therefore no insurance increase, to get you to pay more to them.

Additionally, the wording in the notices and in the court themselves, are all designed to scare you. As I said, the court clerk even misinformed me about the consequences. They and she did not want me to submit the Trial by Written Declaration and she was checking how willing I was to request a new trial if it came back unfavorable to me.
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


And if a police officer is not around to witness your mistake, you can always make your own ticket.

grin.gif
 
It's been a while, but the only traffic ticket I've ever gotten was in San Francisco. I've gotten the occasional warning though.

I thought I pushed through a yellow, but the cop claimed it was red when I entered the intersection. Cops typically lie. They know exactly how much the fine is, but claim they don't know, like this one.

I decided to fight it in court. I was a poor college student, so I didn't really care about the time, although I did miss part of my class doing this. That meant going to traffic court and picking a time and date, then returning. I wore a dress shirt and tie for my court appearance. Once I got there, the citing officer didn't show and my ticket was tossed. I've heard that they don't pay their officers for their time in traffic court for citations. CHP does.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


Of course, that's a practical way to look at it. However around here, speed limits are artificially low and nowhere near the 85th percentile on most roads. The 85th or 95th percentile is used to determine what speed a specific roadway can be safely driven. In other words, there is exactly zero safety benefit in driving 55 on a road that the average motorist will drive 70 or 80 on.

The value of the time saved over the course of a year far exceeds the cost of even the most expensive ticket.

Example, by going faster, one saves about 80 hours of driving time per year. In 80 hours, or 2 normal work-weeks, most of us earn quite a bit more than even the most expensive ticket.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


Of course, that's a practical way to look at it. However around here, speed limits are artificially low and nowhere near the 85th percentile on most roads. The 85th or 95th percentile is used to determine what speed a specific roadway can be safely driven. In other words, there is exactly zero safety benefit in driving 55 on a road that the average motorist will drive 70 or 80 on.

The value of the time saved over the course of a year far exceeds the cost of even the most expensive ticket.

Example, by going faster, one saves about 80 hours of driving time per year. In 80 hours, or 2 normal work-weeks, most of us earn quite a bit more than even the most expensive ticket.

x100 Well said.

Here in the DC area there is virtually no traffic enforcement on the major roads - the beltway, 270, 495, etc, despite 55 mph speed limits and traffic flow of 70+. They know that to enforce the speed limit would be 1) detrimental to our already bad traffic and 2) incite revolt.

However, on the medium speed roads through town they're out to get you - low speed limits, speed traps, speed cameras, the works.

Traffic enforcement is a revenue generation tactic for localities, pure and simple. If it were truly about safety we'd have a very different set of laws and enforcement strategies.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
2nd was parked the wrong way on the side of the street...Jump starting my dads car. I lost this one in court,the judge didn't care who I was jump starting I was facing the wrong way.

I would have asked, "So how do I jumpstart his car? Where am I allowed to park while doing it?" and see what he says.

In Nevada I had to pay a ticket & erased the 3 points by paying $100 extra
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
the trooper took my certificate from the course so I couldn't even send that into the state myself for the points reduction. Don't just assume that somebody with a state uniform on is going to be a decent person who is going to be truthful with you...

Well of course cops lie. That's how they get confessions. There is a very strong incentive for cops to say whatever it takes to boost their conviction records. Don't you watch Law & order? ;-)

I have a teacher who would say this thread is hateful. And I quote: "I have a cousin who is a cop, and it's really difficult job." Yes. And? That doesn't justify the videos I see on youtube where cops drag citizens out of cars & beat them (sometimes to death)
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


When youre using a hands free device on a telecon and an officer "thinks" youre operating a cellphone illegally, the only thing to do is prove otherwise. It worked. Sorry, try again.
 
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I find it much less expensive and time consuming to drive in a manner that doesn't get me "pulled over" in the first place.


Of course, that's a practical way to look at it. However around here, speed limits are artificially low and nowhere near the 85th percentile on most roads. The 85th or 95th percentile is used to determine what speed a specific roadway can be safely driven. In other words, there is exactly zero safety benefit in driving 55 on a road that the average motorist will drive 70 or 80 on.

The value of the time saved over the course of a year far exceeds the cost of even the most expensive ticket.

Example, by going faster, one saves about 80 hours of driving time per year. In 80 hours, or 2 normal work-weeks, most of us earn quite a bit more than even the most expensive ticket.

x100 Well said.

Here in the DC area there is virtually no traffic enforcement on the major roads - the beltway, 270, 495, etc, despite 55 mph speed limits and traffic flow of 70+. They know that to enforce the speed limit would be 1) detrimental to our already bad traffic and 2) incite revolt.

However, on the medium speed roads through town they're out to get you - low speed limits, speed traps, speed cameras, the works.

Traffic enforcement is a revenue generation tactic for localities, pure and simple. If it were truly about safety we'd have a very different set of laws and enforcement strategies.

jeff


Be careful of the camera at the very south end of 295, heading north, if youre using that logic. If youre the only vehicle and they gave a good pic, youll get a ticket for 55 in the marked 50 zone.
 
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Example, by going faster, one saves about 80 hours of driving time per year. In 80 hours, or 2 normal work-weeks, most of us earn quite a bit more than even the most expensive ticket.

x100 Well said.


logical fallacies FTW, eh ?

ARE you actually earning two weeks more money speeding ?

(or paying someone to mow your lawn, which is the same fallacy)

I think not...
 
I try to drive conservatively most of the time, meaning 5 over the limit. A lot of times, it is just unavoidable. On the highway for my morning commute, if you are in the right lane doing 75mph you will get run over. Everyone is doing 80+. That doesn't make it right, but going with the flow of traffic causes for less danger in that situation.


Sometimes I wonder why cars are being produced with such high HP ratings. Don't get me wrong, I like fast cars, but when is it overkill? You can't use 600hp on the street, you'll just end up in jail.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Example, by going faster, one saves about 80 hours of driving time per year. In 80 hours, or 2 normal work-weeks, most of us earn quite a bit more than even the most expensive ticket.

x100 Well said.


logical fallacies FTW, eh ?

ARE you actually earning two weeks more money speeding ?

(or paying someone to mow your lawn, which is the same fallacy)

I think not...

Please, don't be pedantic. The point here is that our time is valuable. Speaking about it in terms of money is one way to try to quantify that value.

Of course reduced time driving doesn't equal more money in my bank account. It does however equate to more time to do things I'd rather be doing - spending time with my kids, sleeping, cooking, relaxing, etc. My commute is about 55 minutes or 1:40 (total, both ways) depending on which work site I'm going to. By exceeding the speed limit by about 20% (ie going 65 in a 55) I free up 10-20 minutes per day. That extra time is worth the monetary risks associated with a speeding ticket.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Sometimes I wonder why cars are being produced with such high HP ratings. Don't get me wrong, I like fast cars, but when is it overkill? You can't use 600hp on the street, you'll just end up in jail.


Because boys just want to have fun.
 
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Sometimes I wonder why cars are being produced with such high HP ratings. Don't get me wrong, I like fast cars, but when is it overkill? You can't use 600hp on the street, you'll just end up in jail.


Because boys just want to have fun.


No doubt, and each to their own.

But I can drive my Camry at seven-tenths all day long, and no one would know.
wink.gif
 
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