Explain why oil companies are loosing money?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: grampi
The big oil cheerleaders will never stop defending the industry...they all believe it's this squeaky clean, completely moral and legal enterprise that never does anything wrong, and never purposely does anything to pad their profits...I just don't get what they get out of the deal by always defending the actions of the industry...it must be some kind of a deal the industry has with their shareholders to give out bonuses to defenders...

Remember one thing: We in California are paying about $1/gal more than national average, because we use special formula that only refineries in CA produce it, this special formula costs about 15-120 cents more a gallon, state tax is higher too also gas stations cost is higher too.

Even we are paying higher price but we still think that with all the hard works the US oil companies doing very good job making the drivers have gas to go anywhere we like at reasonable price.

The oil companies on average were/are earning about 10-15% profit compares with much higher profit from other industries, such as pharmaceutical, finance, high tech(such as Apple) ... Sometimes they lost big money in exploration and came up empty hand. Shell lost $5 BILLION in Alaska few year ago.

Quote:
After investing an estimated $5 billion in recent years into oil exploration in the offshore Alaskan Arctic, Shell announced Thursday that it will abandon any renewed drilling effort this year.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/30/...illing-20140130

If you look at the cost of finding, extracting and transporting crude oil you will see that their profits are reasonable.

If you look at the price of a gallon of milk and a gallon of gas, you should see that gas is cheap. Looking at the black crude oil and finished gallon of gas you should be amazed that they can refining it so cheap, looking at a gallon of milk from a cow and a gallon of milk you buy in super market do you see the big difference ?

Summary: I am very thankful for being able to buy gas whenever I need it at reasonable price, my only wish is we use similar formula as the rest of the country so that we don't have to rely on only few refineries in California.


According to your link, Shell has suffered a lot of losses mostly because of incompetence and illegitimate activities.

My heart hardly goes out to them for the losses they have suffered.

I wouldn't call those typical business expenses.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If you look at the cost of finding, extracting and transporting crude oil you will see that their profits are reasonable.


I agree 100% if we're talking about today's market. My problem with the industry is when crude goes to $100 or above, and gas goes to $3.50 or higher. We know by today's inventories how much supply the industry is capable of producing, which means the only reason for driving prices up is man made profit padding. There are never any actual problems with the industry meeting, or exceeding demand....
 
Super simple stuff here. It costs X number of dollars to get a barrel of oil out of the ground, if a barrel trades higher than that you make money, lower you lose.

Right now oil is trading lower than the cost of extraction so they are losing.

Part of the cost of extraction is fixed costs, ie permits, drilling, operations costs like equipment, labor, etc. That stuff you amortize over your output. The big problem a lot of companies are running into now is that the fixed costs which can take a long time to put in place are already in place, and typically have some sort of loan on them. So they still pump just to get a little cash flow coming in.

For example say your oil cost is $70 a barrel, well once the fixed costs are in place your actually cost may be $10 a barrel to physically pump it out of the ground. So now that oil is trading around $29 your losing on every barrel you pump, but you will still pump to generate some cash flow to help pay for the fixed costs....and hope and pray and sacrifice a chicken that it goes back up before you run out of working capital.

Business 101 here.

Oil is low right now because Saudi Arabia has the lowest fix costs and massive capital reserves. They are betting they can punish their enemy Iran, her ally Russia(helping out the EU and NATO as well thanks!) and US oil production.

What this amounts to is a massive game of financial chicken with the global oil markets. Once Saudi Arabia proves their point its going to head back to $80-$100 a barrel, the big question really is when that happens. I suspect only a handful of people close to the King have any idea of that.
 
Last edited:
I just watched a PBS 'American experience' episode on the Rockefellers and Standard oil this past week. Oil companies have gouged consumers for over a century. Especially since the early 70's embargo. A Leopard can't change it's spots. High oil prices will be back soon. Guaranteed!
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304

I just watched a PBS 'American experience' episode on the Rockefellers and Standard oil this past week. Oil companies have gouged consumers for over a century. Especially since the early 70's embargo. A Leopard can't change it's spots. High oil prices will be back soon. Guaranteed!


You're darn right they will, and why? Because the industry controls prices by controlling supplies...
 
Maybe our bozo government can also sell them discount F-18 Super Hornets, F-16 Falcons, F-15E Eagles, Apache helicopters, our latest electronic warfare and radar jamming technology since they are now our 'friends'
smirk.gif


Bozo must have really been happy to see our sailors at gunpoint by our so called new friends in the region....
smirk.gif
smirk.gif

What ribbon does the military give you when held at gunpoint by allies ?

Everything just sunshine and roses.... The most powerful Navy in the world made to look like security guards at local Walmart.
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
While I agree with the general point you are making( there is more to the cost of gas than just crude )you have to remember that when crude was at or below the low $20 range gas typically was at or under $1 a gallon for many people. Change $1 to whatever figure would equate to the overall higher cost in CA vs the national average.

Crude is now in the upper $20 range but gas is STILL at almost $2 here( low $1.90 range ). Should be well under $1.50 based on past pricing vs crude costs. There has always been taxes and costs asociated with gas prices. Seems to me that prices should be much lower then they are based on history which is I believe the other's point.

FYI back in the early 2000's before the insansity hit the energy world, and then Katrina, I was paying $0.95-$0.99 p/gallon of r87 here in many places. The high areas would be around $1.05. Wasn't all that long ago I saw sub $1 gas.

Today gas price isn't related to today crude oil. Today gas is refined from crude extracted a while ago, today crude oil price will reflect near future gas price, may be a week or two.

You should take into account up to date these costs for estimating the price of gas you can buy at local stations:

Crude oil price
Transportation crude oil to refinery
Refining crude oil to gas
Gas additives
Transporting gas to retail station
Retailer overhead cost and profit
Oil company overhead cost and profit
Federal and state taxes

Many of these costs went up over the last 10-20 years, almost nothing has negative inflation.

If you look at oil companies quarterly finance reports next quarter you will see that their profit will be much lower than previous quarters.

How much profit should an oil company make ? 10% is too much or too little ? Who should determine how much a company can earn ?


AGAIN, I dn't expect it to be as low as it was 10 years ago. HOwever, I do feel it is higher than need be( accounting for inflation ).


inflation link Actually, it looks like Hemi is right. The cost was about $1.19 for regular then (on a high day).
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Maybe our bozo government can also sell them discount F-18 Super Hornets, F-16 Falcons, F-15E Eagles, Apache helicopters, our latest electronic warfare and radar jamming technology since they are now our 'friends'
smirk.gif


Bozo must have really been happy to see our sailors at gunpoint by our so called new friends in the region....
smirk.gif
smirk.gif

What ribbon does the military give you when held at gunpoint by allies ?

Everything just sunshine and roses.... The most powerful Navy in the world made to look like security guards at local Walmart.
smirk.gif




You do realize we entered their water with heavily armed ships? What do you think would've happened if another country came off the coast of Florida with the same type of equipment?
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
You do realize we entered their water with heavily armed ships? What do you think would've happened if another country came off the coast of Florida with the same type of equipment?


You don't really understand this stuff, do you?

They claim we entered. We said the boats were having a mechanical problem and requested assistance. The facts aren't all in, but we can be certain of the following:

A patrol boat is not a ship.

A single .50 cal does not constitute "heavily armed" in Naval combatants.

So, of the three things you state, 1. We entered, 2. With ships, 3. That were heavily armed - one is still in dispute, and two are simply wrong.
 
I don't like Iran any more than the next guy, but if that had been so much as an Iranian military rowboat in our waters, people would have been detained by the Coast Guard until some serious questions were answered, and the answers verified.

Iran has done, and likely does continue to due a lot of shady, and downright despicable things, but this is not one I would hold against them.

Keep in mind that we shot down one of their civilian airliners because we thought it was an F-14. We are hardly the military to get our hair up over a bloodless misunderstanding between our two nations.
 
Absolutely nothing would happen if they unloaded on those US Navy saliors.

Deal is way too important than a minor misunderstanding and some lives lost...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude
You do realize we entered their water with heavily armed ships? What do you think would've happened if another country came off the coast of Florida with the same type of equipment?


You don't really understand this stuff, do you?

They claim we entered. We said the boats were having a mechanical problem and requested assistance. The facts aren't all in, but we can be certain of the following:

A patrol boat is not a ship.

A single .50 cal does not constitute "heavily armed" in Naval combatants.

So, of the three things you state, 1. We entered, 2. With ships, 3. That were heavily armed - one is still in dispute, and two are simply wrong.


Who knows the real story. I believe those patrol boats are twin engine...so mechanical problems? Pretty rare on a boat like that to lose all power...but it does happen.

IMHO I bet they were buzzing some Iranian port, taking pictures or whatever, either had a mechanical blip or something, and got caught. Whoever was in charge probably ordered them to surrender rather than shoot it out and make a mess.

I doubt we will ever know the real story though.

The reality is that the Iranian navy is pretty much irrelevant, so whatever no one really cares either way. Developments with Chinese navel patrols near AK are far more interesting.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi

You're darn right they will, and why? Because the industry controls prices by controlling supplies...

Put your money where your mouth is..buy http://etfdb.com/etf/USO/, and http://etfdb.com/etf/UGA/


I will ask you one question; why are prices so low right now?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Keep in mind that we shot down one of their civilian airliners because we thought it was an F-14.


When has the U.S. ever shot down a civilian airliner?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom