Exhaust Fumes and Fuel Power

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Bugshu

Joined
Aug 6, 2004
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247
Location
Texas
The last couple of nights its been cold........ and I mean really cold. I filled up last night with Phillips Top Tier gas and dutifully added fuel power. For some odd reason, I added 1 oz per 5 gallons rather than the normal 1 oz per 10 gallons that Ive been using in the past. Today, as I was driving I could smell exhaust fumes.

Ok, the only two variables that I could find were that I added a double dose of fp and that it was very cold.

Does anybody have any thoughts why today all of a sudden I could smell the exhaust? Im about to take a fairly long trip and the choice of vehicles might well depend on the answers. The car runs like a top but I dont want to be smelling exhaust fumes for 3000 miles and Im a bit concerned. Did I add too much fp and break some carbon or crud loose which got in the catalytic converter or was it something else? Will going back to an oz per 10 gallons bring me back to normal? The exhaust smell is really bad when the car is at idle.

Ideas and help will be most appreciated.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
The last couple of nights its been cold........ and I mean really cold. I filled up last night with Phillips Top Tier gas and dutifully added fuel power. For some odd reason, I added 1 oz per 5 gallons rather than the normal 1 oz per 10 gallons that Ive been using in the past. Today, as I was driving I could smell exhaust fumes.

Ok, the only two variables that I could find were that I added a double dose of fp and that it was very cold.

Does anybody have any thoughts why today all of a sudden I could smell the exhaust? Im about to take a fairly long trip and the choice of vehicles might well depend on the answers. The car runs like a top but I dont want to be smelling exhaust fumes for 3000 miles and Im a bit concerned. Did I add too much fp and break some carbon or crud loose which got in the catalytic converter or was it something else? Will going back to an oz per 10 gallons bring me back to normal? The exhaust smell is really bad when the car is at idle.

Ideas and help will be most appreciated.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
Click to expand...
you are seeing the tetbook definition of constantly using chemicals in your fuel.

It will eventually poison your cat.
 
If you smell exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment or while driving down the road ...I don't think it matters what's causing the smell ..you've got exhaust leakage issues.

..and what's "really cold" for your part of Texas? We're going down to the low teens tonight.

Let me ask a few more questions.

Is the smell evident when you start it up and are idling? How about when fully warmed up?

I imagine that FP could give you an odor (I haven't used the stuff yet)..I know two cans of methynol sure will ...but it's just tagging along with the odorless CO and CO2 and HC ..and NOX ..and H20 that your tailpipe is puking out anyway.

Fail safe test. Drive enough that you need 1/2 tank of fuel. Fill up...don't add FP ..does odor go away? Yes, it was FP ..NO ..you've got some issue.
 
My first guess would be really cold equals a richer mixture and more gasoline smell. But you should not be able to smell it with the car moving like Gary Allan said.

A extra oz. of FP isn't going to kill your cat.
 
The temperature is in the single digits though I imagine the wind chill is much colder. I mention the temperature because there were a lot of creaking and popping noises in the exhaust today. Its cold here in the top part of the panhandle and the temperature differential might be causing the exhaust to act funny.

Ive never noticed any exhaust fumes before today so I doubt its been something thats been a problem.

Gary's advice per usual is sound and I had already planned on driving for half a tank and refilling to see but it doesnt hurt to ask the really smart people here what they think.

I warmed the car up before driving it and Id say that the time span was 3-4 minutes each time. The exhaust smell became more evident when pulling into my driveway after perhaps 15-20 minutes of driving. I didnt notice the smell as much while driving or when first warming up the car but then again during warmup it was idling slowly and during operation the car was in motion.

I hope that FP isnt poisoning the cat and doubt that it is though its certainly possible. If that is the case then I imagine that its a larger issue than just the chemicals in FP. Somehow, I think a large chunk of crud came loose and found its way into the exhaust.

Anyway, it all seems odd. Im perhaps a bit obsessive about maintenance and I had Midas look over my exhaust a few months ago and they proclaimed it fine. If this is really a problem then its a new problem.

Thanks for the help everyone,

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
 
My GF's integra runs great, gets ~31 mpg, and passes emissions sniffer tests.

But in the winter, especially during cold startup after sitting a few days, the exhaust smells of a sour weird scent. This was so before ever using any additive, and still does so, maybe a bit more after using fp.

JMH
 
Bug

I think this may be the critical part. Anecdotally I noticed some unfamiliar smell since starting to use fuel power in cold weather (canada) either idling at cold startup for 30 seconds, or when pulling up slowly at the end of a drive or idling before shutting off engine. Whether it is FP itself, or crud it is burning off I don't know.

It hasn't bothered me. I would be concerned if i was doing 60 mph down the highway and smelling fumes of any kind. Idling? a different matter.


quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:

SNIP
The exhaust smell became more evident when pulling into my driveway after perhaps 15-20 minutes of driving. I didnt notice the smell as much while driving or when first warming up the car but then again during warmup it was idling slowly and during operation the car was in motion.

Bugshu
Click to expand...
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlazerLT:

quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
The last couple of nights its been cold........ and I mean really cold. I filled up last night with Phillips Top Tier gas and dutifully added fuel power. For some odd reason, I added 1 oz per 5 gallons rather than the normal 1 oz per 10 gallons that Ive been using in the past. Today, as I was driving I could smell exhaust fumes.

Ok, the only two variables that I could find were that I added a double dose of fp and that it was very cold.

Does anybody have any thoughts why today all of a sudden I could smell the exhaust? Im about to take a fairly long trip and the choice of vehicles might well depend on the answers. The car runs like a top but I dont want to be smelling exhaust fumes for 3000 miles and Im a bit concerned. Did I add too much fp and break some carbon or crud loose which got in the catalytic converter or was it something else? Will going back to an oz per 10 gallons bring me back to normal? The exhaust smell is really bad when the car is at idle.

Ideas and help will be most appreciated.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
Click to expand...
you are seeing the tetbook definition of constantly using chemicals in your fuel.

It will eventually poison your cat.
Click to expand...
BlazerLT, FP will not poison your cat. Many adds may, but FP will not. FP does not break off chunks of carbon it dissolves carbon (that's what makes FP unique). If a chunk of carbon came off it was going to happen anyway with or without FP.

As for the exhaust smell? I do not see how FP will increase any smell. Are you storing FP in your trunk? Could it be the FP you're smelling?
 
Bug

I hope I wasn't misunderstood. I meant "duh" on my part. I hadn't even thought about my own storage practices. However, as you noted, the raw smell is different from what you and I seem to notice in exhaust.

Winter fuel is definitely different here in Canada. It is routinely -15F in Feb and +85F in July so they definitely blend for the difference.

Overall I tend to notice more fuel smells at both temperature extremes combined with a lack of wind. However in the summer is more of an unburnt gasoline smell and in the winter its what smells like exhaust except sweeter and less hydrocarbon-y (did i invent a word?) . I assume temperature is a big factor in whatever I am smelling.

My general reaction is that I would be concerned about it at highway speeds (eg physical problem in exhaust system) but idling or pulling into the driveway where we both seem to experience things have drawn my attention but not my concern.

I also do have a fair amount of faith in the Experts like Terry and MolaKule. If they had concerns about FP's impact on Cats or exhaust systems generally we would have heard.


quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
I do the same thing. I have a big bottle of fp and a little bottle of fp and a little kitchen funnel to transfer them from one to another in the trunk. And yet, I still didnt notice any of the fumes until yesterday and I do think they were exhaust fumes as when the engine was turned off the fumes started to go away.

Id rather have a duh moment than a problem. Maybe somehow cold air keeps fumes around a bit longer than warmer breezy air.

Still, something seems out of sorts. Its interesting to note that others have noticed similar smells. Maybe winter fuel is different and has a different smell.

I dont know.

Thanks for everyones help.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
Click to expand...
 
One after burner thought here as I digested all that Bug said. I was scoffing at someone in Texas commenting on "really cold" ..figuring near freezing would qualify.

Now, having "really cold" put into context, I can see that maybe Bug would probably run into really cold weather ..WITHOUT winter blended fuel like many of us that live in more variable climates. Your air temp sensor is going to be at max ouput ..and your coolant is going to take a little while longer to allow closed loop operations. This could also be a problem that would never show itself unless you are under these conditions.

That is, under a normal Bug environment ..certain systems in the engine managment ..never bump the walls to show their defects ..so to speak. Sorta like a lazy O2 sensor that never shows itself when the owner does mostly highway ..fine fuel economy ..but when they change service duty ..the thing is a POS since the defective sensor is actually "called to task".
 
quote:
Originally posted by BlazerLT:
you are seeing the tetbook definition of constantly using chemicals in your fuel.

It will eventually poison your cat.
Click to expand...
This is the liquid/condensate that actually is a byproduct(nuisance if you ask me)of combustion and it eats up/rusts up your muffler..its acidic. I remember it ate up my old '90 Civics' sidewise mounted muffler pretty quickly. And this was w/o FP in SoCal clime...
 
quote:
Originally posted by vwoom:

quote:
Originally posted by BlazerLT:
you are seeing the tetbook definition of constantly using chemicals in your fuel.

It will eventually poison your cat.
Click to expand...
This is the liquid/condensate that actually is a byproduct(nuisance if you ask me)of combustion and it eats up/rusts up your muffler..its acidic. I remember it ate up my old '90 Civics' sidewise mounted muffler pretty quickly. And this was w/o FP in SoCal clime...
Click to expand...
Your cat is made to clean and scrub standard combustion exhaust, not additives.

No one can claim that using an additive like FP every tank full will not poison you cat.

Fuel additives are just not needed today.

A completely tuned up engine with quality fuel will keep itself clean with no problems.

It is when people don't tuneup their engines that problems like this occur.
 
Jeff

I just had a "duh" moment. I hadn't even thought of this but we could ask the question "Are you storing anything that has come in contact with FP in the car?"

I certainly noticed some FP aroma when I threw the funnel I used to add FP into a bag in the rear hatch and drove off.


quote:
Originally posted by lcd:

quote:
Originally posted by BlazerLT:

quote:
Originally posted by Bugshu:
The last couple of nights its been cold........ and I mean really cold. I filled up last night with Phillips Top Tier gas and dutifully added fuel power. For some odd reason, I added 1 oz per 5 gallons rather than the normal 1 oz per 10 gallons that Ive been using in the past. Today, as I was driving I could smell exhaust fumes.

Ok, the only two variables that I could find were that I added a double dose of fp and that it was very cold.

Does anybody have any thoughts why today all of a sudden I could smell the exhaust? Im about to take a fairly long trip and the choice of vehicles might well depend on the answers. The car runs like a top but I dont want to be smelling exhaust fumes for 3000 miles and Im a bit concerned. Did I add too much fp and break some carbon or crud loose which got in the catalytic converter or was it something else? Will going back to an oz per 10 gallons bring me back to normal? The exhaust smell is really bad when the car is at idle.

Ideas and help will be most appreciated.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
Click to expand...
you are seeing the tetbook definition of constantly using chemicals in your fuel.

It will eventually poison your cat.
Click to expand...
BlazerLT, FP will not poison your cat. Many adds may, but FP will not. FP does not break off chunks of carbon it dissolves carbon (that's what makes FP unique). If a chunk of carbon came off it was going to happen anyway with or without FP.

As for the exhaust smell? I do not see how FP will increase any smell. Are you storing FP in your trunk? Could it be the FP you're smelling?
Click to expand...
 
I do the same thing. I have a big bottle of fp and a little bottle of fp and a little kitchen funnel to transfer them from one to another in the trunk. And yet, I still didnt notice any of the fumes until yesterday and I do think they were exhaust fumes as when the engine was turned off the fumes started to go away.

Id rather have a duh moment than a problem. Maybe somehow cold air keeps fumes around a bit longer than warmer breezy air.

Still, something seems out of sorts. Its interesting to note that others have noticed similar smells. Maybe winter fuel is different and has a different smell.

I dont know.

Thanks for everyones help.

Happy Motoring All,

cool.gif


Bugshu
 
quote:
No one can claim that using an additive like FP every tank full will not poison you cat.
Click to expand...
How do you prove a negitive? Can you prove that it does? Have you subjected a functional cat to FP in triple the dose for 40k miles and tested the cat every 5k to check for degradation?
confused.gif


quote:
Fuel additives are just not needed today.
Click to expand...
I think that you'll have cause to rethink that sooner or later. It's true that due to quantum leaps in fuel management that most deposits take very long to form before needing treatment. Most cars can go 100-125k without ever adding one drop of fuel additive and be worth no less than one that had used them regularly. This is not to say that benefit cannot be attained by their use. Again ..you can't prove that NO BENEFIT is realized by their use ...especially since you apparently never use them.

but while we're talking about this ...what about your water cleaning? What are you cleaning if today's fuels are so clean and made correctly for your engine? Are you just doing it for the fun of it? And what of those who choose not to use water ..what are they to do? Stand in front of the car and chant some eastern philosophy prayer and hope that good karma will prevail???
dunno.gif
grin.gif
 
Yeah and gasoline at Johnny's Discount Gas and Donut Mart is the exact same as Chevron with Techron or Shell etc.

lol.gif


Techron? What is that? Added to the gasoline? As if gas just comes out of ground ready to go with NO ADDITIVES. It is OK for gasoline refiners to include additives, but heaven forbid anyone adds something extra?
pat.gif


Oh by the way..ALL oil is the same. Additives? Nah, Just give some of that bubblin crude straight out of the ground.

YEE HAH!
grin.gif
 
" Fuel additives are just not needed today. "

Fuels are as complex a mixture of "additives" as you will find ! Currently lacking staying power in solvency ( IMHO).


What you smell is the mixture being riched from cold weather.

EVERY fuel encorporates additives . True the compounds used will affect the subjective scent of the exhaust.

As far as a blanket statement that FP specficially harm the engine or exhaust I would think that FP being in continous use since the late 1940's to date would refute your conclusion.

If any part of the modern diesel or gasoline emissions systems are harmed by FP, thousands of users would have serious problems passing the mandated emissions testing in N America not to mention those using the product in Europe and Pacific areas.

On the contrary those that encorporate FP show very "clean" emissions results. Fouled or failed CATs won't show that in testing.


Last point is that many of our oil analysis customers using FP also subscribe to extended drains on the oil, use elevated "overbased" oils, and run the units to high mileages. Point is that if the CAT, 02 sensor, etc is being harmed by FP, operation, oil analysis, and emissions testing sure isn't showing it.
 
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