Excess Solar Production - Considering an EV

[OVERKILL]

I think I know that you know but for those who don't - solar panels will not provide you with electricity during a black out unless you also go for the added expense of a very expensive battery back up system. With that said battery back up could be much cheaper after local and federal incentives. I dont know.

Since your electric, like mine is only 10 cents kWh I would think, if your lucky enough to have natural gas, get a whole house generator for a fraction of the price or simply a large gas one if needed. Even though gasoline is more of a bother, black outs so rare it still might be worth it. Added bonus you can run the whole house.
Many in my community whole house use propane you need large tanks though.

For cheaper gasoline install,
They have an electrician install an outlet outside the the house that goes to the breaker panel. During a black out they can wheel their large powerful gas generator, plug it in, switch the safety switch on the circuit breakers and fire up the generator in that way and it powers the house through the breakers. You have the option of a smaller generator to power only what you want.

(posting this for others if you know, as many people during black outs learn their solar system doesn't work if the grid goes down, that they needed a very expensive battery back up system for it to work during those times)

I have a Generlink (it's a plug between the meter and the utility feed) that you just plug into the generator. It's basically a 1-cord automatic transfer switch, comes with a 30A cord for the generator, I used it during our recent blackout here and it was seamless, could run basically everything except the oven, dryer and heat pump (just used the gas furnace).

 

[UncleDave]

I have a Generlink (it's a plug between the meter and the utility feed) that you just plug into the generator. It's basically a 1-cord automatic transfer switch, comes with a 30A cord for the generator, I used it during our recent blackout here and it was seamless, could run basically everything except the oven, dryer and heat pump (just used the gas furnace).

Not surprised you'd go that way.

The generlink is the best value way to put in a Xfer switch if you are using a portable genset.

The only downside is that I can see (last I looked) was you can't use them with a 120V only genset, which makes sense because the meter drives (or more accurately I think is driven ) by at least two legs.
So no honda 2K's.

PG&E doesn't allow them forcing us to an external solution.

 

[UncleDave]

Absolutely, that requires a lot. Add a pool, and it's even worse.
But a Generac propane standby is $2k at Northern Tool. Small, it is true. Can't live on Sun alone.

My pool in LA isn't too bad, running off 220 watts after prime, but yeah.

The other way to do it is to use a small inverter genset to charge the small house battery.

This allows you to keep the basics going a long time trickling all night long at idle sipping gas really quietly, or a partial night using the battery for its longest life cycle count run.

That looks like this on a power outage/ or RV dray camp scenario-

9-4 you can basically run almost everything off the roof on a sunny day in this window while charging battery
4-12 you run off the 2K running a charger keeping the battery to its highest economical SOC
12-8 you live off your battery, or a combo of a charger and battery.


You can go a long time on a single 5 er of gas idling from dusk till dawn then running your high load stuff off the roof during the day.

 

[99Saturn]

Got it, so the answer to the question I asked in post 49 is - your contract resets every year.

We dont know if thats a fiscal year that starts in December or if it's a calendar year that starts in Jan.

(using the enphase app I set my custom range to = the contract year vs. the calendar year.

so @ 2000 / 123 days gives you on average of 16 KWH day if that were linear or 5840 a year to spend as you see fit, or 17520 miles a year of driving if you get 3MPKWH.

Nice.

Post #49 was in response to @4wheeldog. Here's how mine works:

I won't have a full year of data until January 2026. My net metering anniversary is December 2025 though so come December 2025 any excess will get paid out and lost. I get to change the date so will likely push it out, but only get to do that once.

Basically I can push my date once. Its based on an anniversary date of when the system was assigned to me (when I took over the lease). I do anticipate the excess kWh will drop a bit in another month or less, will turn the central air on soon, so I will see how much excess I have at that point.

 

[UncleDave]

Post #49 was in response to @4wheeldog. Here's how mine works:

Basically I can push my date once. Its based on an anniversary date of when the system was assigned to me (when I took over the lease). I do anticipate the excess kWh will drop a bit in another month or less, will turn the central air on soon, so I will see how much excess I have at that point.

Oops - I crossed my sources - they were split between 2 pages and I crossed you guys.

 

[99Saturn]

Oops - I crossed my sources - they were split between 2 pages and I crossed you guy.

No worries!

 

[alarmguy]

I have a Generlink (it's a plug between the meter and the utility feed) that you just plug into the generator. It's basically a 1-cord automatic transfer switch, comes with a 30A cord for the generator, I used it during our recent blackout here and it was seamless, could run basically everything except the oven, dryer and heat pump (just used the gas furnace).

Yes, that sounds familiar, something my next-door neighbor had installed. I was seriously considering it, but then procrastination set in and the thought that all our utilities are underground here and like my last neighborhood that only had a four hour outage in 16 years

I still might get something small someday chances are it will be too late and wish I did it sooner!
I don’t think we’re going to be as lucky here along the coast where hurricane are a threat and sometimes hit. I guess you can say it’s hit or miss.

 

[OVERKILL]

Not surprised you'd go that way.

The generlink is the best value way to put in a Xfer switch if you are using a portable genset.

The only downside is that I can see (last I looked) was you can't use them with a 120V only genset, which makes sense because the meter drives (or more accurately I think is driven ) by at least two legs.
So no honda 2K's.

PG&E doesn't allow them forcing us to an external solution.

Yeah, you need the large 240V plug with the two 120V legs for sure to use with the GenerLink. I currently am running a Home Depot special (Generac) 7500W unit, but I plan on upgrading to a quieter inverter unit when the opportunity presents.

 

[paqza]

The excess electricity produced carries minimal value. I am in a similar situation and it has never made financial sense to “invest” in another vehicle just to use it.

Also, keep in mind that your production will fluctuate significantly with the seasons and you may find yourself in a very different position during winter months. The panel efficiency will also drop over time.

If you have a lease or PPA, you're paying for the excess. If you own your solar and are in a market with net metering, you get paid for your excess.

 

[paqza]

I had solar on my home. Removed it last year. Putting holes in the most important protection of your home is a terrible idea.

There's definitely more to this story.

 

[paqza]

At my rates this will never pay for itself, the utility company rates in my area are in the 10 cent per KWH range. I would rather pay for the panels than make my cost of electricity go up by 70%.

I am considering solar, but it is because I want a hedge against the grid, reliability wise. I don't ever want a repeat of what happened in 2021. Plus I work from home 3 days a week. Don't need to run everything but HVAC, fridge, Internet are all must-haves.

The type of contract that person has would not be available in your area. They probably have 0.20-25/kWh rates from their utility, which is why 0.17/kWh pencils for them. It's not one number across the country.

 

[paqza]

I think I know that you know but for those who don't - solar panels will not provide you with electricity during a black out unless you also go for the added expense of a very expensive battery back up system. With that said battery back up could be much cheaper after local and federal incentives. I dont know.

Since your electric, like mine is only 10 cents kWh I would think, if your lucky enough to have natural gas, get a whole house generator for a fraction of the price or simply a large gas one if needed. Even though gasoline is more of a bother, black outs so rare it still might be worth it. Added bonus you can run the whole house.
Many in my community whole house use propane you need large tanks though.

For cheaper gasoline install,
They have an electrician install an outlet outside the the house that goes to the breaker panel. During a black out they can wheel their large powerful gas generator, plug it in, switch the safety switch on the circuit breakers and fire up the generator in that way and it powers the house through the breakers. You have the option of a smaller generator to power only what you want.

(posting this for others if you know, as many people during black outs learn their solar system doesn't work if the grid goes down, that they needed a very expensive battery back up system for it to work during those times)

Battery backups were finally starting to get cost effective until we were liberated from access to cheap, quality batteries a few weeks ago. I'm in the energy industry and battery prices, which had been dropping for years, reversed overnight. We've seen prices go up between 70 and 110% in a few days.

 

[paqza]

As @UncleDave mentioned, the latest NPhase inverters have a mode where they can pass through electricity directly to your house, should you lose power.
It is not high power and won't be able to power up everything, making it the same as having a small backup generator.

That functionality still requires thousands in additional materials and labor costs because it requires an ATS.

 

[UncleDave]

That functionality still requires thousands in additional materials and labor costs because it requires an ATS.

Compared to a simple grid tie connection it is more complicated and expensive.

Any automatically switched 3 or 4 way (roof/grid/battery/ genset) backup system requires additional components and labor.

I skipped adding sun up backup as I already had a 20KW nat gas genset on site.

Enphase has a meter collar like a Generlink that can help with that but I havent seen it in the wild yet.

 

[Cujet]

Lots of really good answers above so I won't repeat them.

I will simply say that it is kinda neat to drive via solar power. Someone I know has 3 EV's and 12kW worth of panels. He charges one of them when the sun is shining, along with running his AC full blast, and so on. His family drives the others when one or two is charging. His investment is huge, the management a bit of a shuffle, but the result is also great.

His Plaid is soooo much fun to drive.

 

[JeffKeryk]

All I can tell you is, I filled up my friend's '98 Accord 4 banger, needed 3/4 tank, $62. That's over a month of running my house and car.

 

[dogememe]

All I can tell you is, I filled up my friend's '98 Accord 4 banger, needed 3/4 tank, $62. That's over a month of running my house and car.

I don't really pay attention to gas prices anymore but it's over $5/gallon now

 

[Torrid]

All I can tell you is, I filled up my friend's '98 Accord 4 banger, needed 3/4 tank, $62. That's over a month of running my house and car.

Heck even just paying my power bill $62 covers my 2,000 miles of driving a month. On a slower month that covers both cars.

 

[ProbeGT]

I don't really pay attention to gas prices anymore but it's over $5/gallon now

Lion share being taxes and fees imposed by your state/municipality. Crude oil price is super low now, around $60/barrel. I paid $2.30/gal today at the pump with all taxes included.

On the flip side, owning an EV here comes at a cost - $200/year, so roughly $18/month regardless of how much you drive. I wanted to get a cheap EV to tinker with but it's just not worth it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lion share being taxes and fees imposed by your state/municipality. Crude oil price is super low now, around $60/barrel. I paid $2.30/gal today at the pump with all taxes included.

On the flip side, owning an EV here comes at a cost - $200/year, so roughly $18/month regardless of how much you drive. I wanted to get a cheap EV to tinker with but it's just not worth it.

That doesn't explain the wild shifts in price. Taxes don't change weekly.