The only thing that bothers me is that not all people in this country pay their fair share of taxes. I am not talking about the rich. I am actually talking about the poor. Why should anyone get the benefits to live in this country and not pay any taxes or worse yet get money they never paid. Taxes are necessary to have a cilvilized country, Governments need revenue to operate. I just don't think people should be given a free ride and encouraged to live off the government.
Everyone loves to complain about taxes, but folks
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Originally Posted By: Finz
I'm a proponent of a national sales tax on the consumer.
Me too, it catches those who work under the table. Get the money at a choke point... like a gasoline terminal. It'll reduce the paperwork and onus on true small businesses like home daycares etc.
I'm a proponent of a national sales tax on the consumer.
Me too, it catches those who work under the table. Get the money at a choke point... like a gasoline terminal. It'll reduce the paperwork and onus on true small businesses like home daycares etc.
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
If you add up the taxes you pay pretty much anytime you move money, the real tax rate is about 50%. [Citation Needed]
I live in CT, I can't wake up in the morning without paying taxes.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
If you add up the taxes you pay pretty much anytime you move money, the real tax rate is about 50%. [Citation Needed]
I live in CT, I can't wake up in the morning without paying taxes.
There is nothing wrong with high taxes, IF people get a high level of service in return.
The problem with the USA now is we pay high taxes, and get barely 1/10th of the value in return.
The problem with the USA now is we pay high taxes, and get barely 1/10th of the value in return.
Originally Posted By: Christopher Hussey
Why should we compare GDP to "taxes and revenues"? What do they have to do with each other?
Think of all the large companies like GE who add who knows how many billions to GDP annually yet pay no income taxes?
Do they consider inflation to be a "tax" or "revenue"? Because it arguably is.
Because to make an apples to apples comparison to the other developed countries, we need to consider out of pocket health care expenses.
Sure, we don't pay high taxes, we just pay an extra 1.2 trillion out of pocket for healthcare compared to high tax jurisdictions. It may not be a tax, but we don't get out of paying it, and the dollars going out the door every month to pay for healtchare are just as green as the dollars going out the door to pay taxes, so our effective tax burden is pretty high.
Why should we compare GDP to "taxes and revenues"? What do they have to do with each other?
Think of all the large companies like GE who add who knows how many billions to GDP annually yet pay no income taxes?
Do they consider inflation to be a "tax" or "revenue"? Because it arguably is.
Because to make an apples to apples comparison to the other developed countries, we need to consider out of pocket health care expenses.
Sure, we don't pay high taxes, we just pay an extra 1.2 trillion out of pocket for healthcare compared to high tax jurisdictions. It may not be a tax, but we don't get out of paying it, and the dollars going out the door every month to pay for healtchare are just as green as the dollars going out the door to pay taxes, so our effective tax burden is pretty high.
As a Canadian residence, it certainly feels like I pay a lot in taxes. The sales tax in BC, for instance, is 12% on most items (%7 and %5 often applied together); gas is currently $1.40 L ($5.29USG), alcohol taxes are ridiculously high (decent 6 pack of beer = $12).
And in return? We have a fairly stable economy - good local municipal services, decent infrastructure (although too much gas tax money is looted and not put back into roads ... read: obvious) and good health care system available to all.
Post secondary education is very expensive.
And in return? We have a fairly stable economy - good local municipal services, decent infrastructure (although too much gas tax money is looted and not put back into roads ... read: obvious) and good health care system available to all.
Post secondary education is very expensive.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
The only thing that bothers me is that not all people in this country pay their fair share of taxes. I am not talking about the rich. I am actually talking about the poor. Why should anyone get the benefits to live in this country and not pay any taxes or worse yet get money they never paid. Taxes are necessary to have a cilvilized country, Governments need revenue to operate. I just don't think people should be given a free ride and encouraged to live off the government.
This has nothing to do with the percentage of tax in GDP.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I have to wonder if that's all taxes considered. State and federal income taxes, capital gains taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, taxes on various energy sources, etc.
Wasn't there once a post that listed many of the taxes we face outside of our income tax? There's about a hundred items, down to things like tax on your cable bill.
I firmly believe that when ALL of our taxes are added up (things like tolls on bridges, taxes on our phone bill, sales taxes, property taxes, income taxes, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes etc..) we have some of the HIGHEST taxes in the world.
It's funny that the people who say we don't pay too much taxes are usually the one's who aren't paying their FAIR share (ie: Warren Buffet).
Remember that approximately 47% of Americans pay no income taxes and often get refunds due to things like the "earned income credit"....
The problem, as I see it, is that our government wastes SO MUCH OF our MONEY....FRAUD is rampant in virtually every government program.
I don't get you, it clearly says all taxes as part of GDP.
You can complain that you pay too much as a percentage of your income, but that gap vs the graph means a few things that people have clearly forgot:
1) Middle class like you pay higher tax percentage wise than the wealthier ones that rely on capital gain or off shore account holding to shelter income.
2) Your income is just not that big of a part of the GDP.
3) We are clearly not "some of the highest in the world", that is a message that those who pay little tax (via capital gain) try to brain wash you with.
The only thing that bothers me is that not all people in this country pay their fair share of taxes. I am not talking about the rich. I am actually talking about the poor. Why should anyone get the benefits to live in this country and not pay any taxes or worse yet get money they never paid. Taxes are necessary to have a cilvilized country, Governments need revenue to operate. I just don't think people should be given a free ride and encouraged to live off the government.
This has nothing to do with the percentage of tax in GDP.
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I have to wonder if that's all taxes considered. State and federal income taxes, capital gains taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, taxes on various energy sources, etc.
Wasn't there once a post that listed many of the taxes we face outside of our income tax? There's about a hundred items, down to things like tax on your cable bill.
I firmly believe that when ALL of our taxes are added up (things like tolls on bridges, taxes on our phone bill, sales taxes, property taxes, income taxes, capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes etc..) we have some of the HIGHEST taxes in the world.
It's funny that the people who say we don't pay too much taxes are usually the one's who aren't paying their FAIR share (ie: Warren Buffet).
Remember that approximately 47% of Americans pay no income taxes and often get refunds due to things like the "earned income credit"....
The problem, as I see it, is that our government wastes SO MUCH OF our MONEY....FRAUD is rampant in virtually every government program.
I don't get you, it clearly says all taxes as part of GDP.
You can complain that you pay too much as a percentage of your income, but that gap vs the graph means a few things that people have clearly forgot:
1) Middle class like you pay higher tax percentage wise than the wealthier ones that rely on capital gain or off shore account holding to shelter income.
2) Your income is just not that big of a part of the GDP.
3) We are clearly not "some of the highest in the world", that is a message that those who pay little tax (via capital gain) try to brain wash you with.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Be very careful of statistics. As they may include those with no income, as part of the tax basis. The Consumer price index uses "hedonics" (yes, from the word hedonism) to discount the value (from the purchase price of the product) increased features have! The list goes on and on.
My point is that there are many statistical distortions today. Without an accurate look at each individual situation, The best that can be said is that we simply don't know how much of our money goes to federal, state and local governments.
and governments and bank accounts in Swiss, Bermuda, Cayman Island, Hong Kong, Cypress, etc.
and how much of the taxes in the "higher percentage of GDP" nations are used for what we don't pay for our people, like health care, and the social safety net, retirement, etc.
and how much of other nations' income come from other resources like nationalized oil, high land sales / lease price (like Hong Kong and China), etc.
Be very careful of statistics. As they may include those with no income, as part of the tax basis. The Consumer price index uses "hedonics" (yes, from the word hedonism) to discount the value (from the purchase price of the product) increased features have! The list goes on and on.
My point is that there are many statistical distortions today. Without an accurate look at each individual situation, The best that can be said is that we simply don't know how much of our money goes to federal, state and local governments.
and governments and bank accounts in Swiss, Bermuda, Cayman Island, Hong Kong, Cypress, etc.
and how much of the taxes in the "higher percentage of GDP" nations are used for what we don't pay for our people, like health care, and the social safety net, retirement, etc.
and how much of other nations' income come from other resources like nationalized oil, high land sales / lease price (like Hong Kong and China), etc.
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Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I don't get you, it clearly says all taxes as part of GDP.
You can complain that you pay too much as a percentage of your income, but that gap vs the graph means a few things that people have clearly forgot:
1) Middle class like you pay higher tax percentage wise than the wealthier ones that rely on capital gain or off shore account holding to shelter income.
2) Your income is just not that big of a part of the GDP.
3) We are clearly not "some of the highest in the world", that is a message that those who pay little tax (via capital gain) try to brain wash you with.
Numbers one and two are correct technically, but number three is complete baloney. I have a really close friend who became a millionaire after his Dad passed. The taxes are extraordinary. Even with a team of financial experts he pays HUGE taxes. It is completely true that the percentage is lower than myself, but the DOLLAR AMOUNT is what many would call a great years wages!
Since many of the so-called 'wealthy' are also job creators you are forgetting the massive amounts of taxes that their businesses pay. The whole amounts are staggering, and the Government wastes an astonishingly large percentage of it.
I don't get you, it clearly says all taxes as part of GDP.
You can complain that you pay too much as a percentage of your income, but that gap vs the graph means a few things that people have clearly forgot:
1) Middle class like you pay higher tax percentage wise than the wealthier ones that rely on capital gain or off shore account holding to shelter income.
2) Your income is just not that big of a part of the GDP.
3) We are clearly not "some of the highest in the world", that is a message that those who pay little tax (via capital gain) try to brain wash you with.
Numbers one and two are correct technically, but number three is complete baloney. I have a really close friend who became a millionaire after his Dad passed. The taxes are extraordinary. Even with a team of financial experts he pays HUGE taxes. It is completely true that the percentage is lower than myself, but the DOLLAR AMOUNT is what many would call a great years wages!
Since many of the so-called 'wealthy' are also job creators you are forgetting the massive amounts of taxes that their businesses pay. The whole amounts are staggering, and the Government wastes an astonishingly large percentage of it.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Since many of the so-called 'wealthy' are also job creators you are forgetting the massive amounts of taxes that their businesses pay.
It's much the same up here, and it is a bit of a shell game on the part of the government. Tax shelters and how corporations avoid taxes are exaggerated topics. For one, for every dollar the government knocks off of someone's tax bill, they'll make sure it's added to someone else's. And various jurisdictions nail the businesses with a bunch of other taxes and fees, which are (at least up here) deductible from the corporate tax assessment.
Look at up here. Saskatoon has a business license that every business must pay annually. Regina does not if your business is conducted on a zoned business property, where you pay more city business tax than they do in Saskatoon. How businesses treat sales tax here depends upon whether it's federal or provincial (and which province).
Since many of the so-called 'wealthy' are also job creators you are forgetting the massive amounts of taxes that their businesses pay.
It's much the same up here, and it is a bit of a shell game on the part of the government. Tax shelters and how corporations avoid taxes are exaggerated topics. For one, for every dollar the government knocks off of someone's tax bill, they'll make sure it's added to someone else's. And various jurisdictions nail the businesses with a bunch of other taxes and fees, which are (at least up here) deductible from the corporate tax assessment.
Look at up here. Saskatoon has a business license that every business must pay annually. Regina does not if your business is conducted on a zoned business property, where you pay more city business tax than they do in Saskatoon. How businesses treat sales tax here depends upon whether it's federal or provincial (and which province).
Having traveled across the planet and part of the US/Canada. I am more than fine paying taxes.
I live where I have a lack of any crime(lowest state in US ), piece of mind and honestly a relatively easy life.
It seems to be the price of admission and I am paying
I live where I have a lack of any crime(lowest state in US ), piece of mind and honestly a relatively easy life.
It seems to be the price of admission and I am paying
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