EV Use in Cold Winter Conditions

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Was just discussing this with a friend. Their model 3, in below freezing conditions, 70-mile round trip commute (two stone cold runs), takes 1/3 of the battery.

So figure 210 miles for a model 3, brand new (before capacity loss or impedance issues show up) in the winter.
 
JHZR2 said:
Was just discussing this with a friend. Their model 3, in below freezing conditions, 70-mile round trip commute (two stone cold runs), takes 1/3 of the battery.

So figure 210 miles for a model 3, brand new (before capacity loss or impedance issues show up) in the winter.
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What year is the car, the newer heat pump/octovalve cars are pretty good.
 
Cujet said:
It's good to recognize that very little energy is consumed getting gasoline to the filling station. While it does not directly answer the question, it's pretty much an insignificant number, and gas to the tank is roughly equal to getting energy to a power plant.

It really does not matter all that much. The energy consumed matters 32 times more.

Where the EV shines is the electric motor converts 90% of a batteries energy into rotational power. The best fuel powered engines are 44% efficient (diesel) and 41% efficient (Toyota hybrids). The best power plant is 54% efficient at the power plant's fence.
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What’s your definition of “very little energy”?

Around 900,000,000,000 lbs. (900 BILLION pounds) of gasoline gets loaded into tens of thousands** of semi tanker trucks and driven to gas stations annually in the US.

How do you move 900 BILLION pounds of anything by truck while using “very little energy”?

* 142,710,000,000 gallons annually x 6.3 lbs./gallon
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10

** https://www.gao.gov/assets/660/657755.pdf
 
4WD said:
Of course moving electricity a long distance is not efficient …
so get ready to see power generation everywhere you turn …
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Depends on ones definition of efficient. High voltage transmission lines have a 2%-6% loss depending on voltage of line and other factors. Figure worst case scenario a 15% loss between the generation source and the consumer. You can get under 10% loss from generation to consumer in some scenarios.

That's fairly efficient in my book!
 
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5AcresAndAFool said:
Depends on ones definition of efficient. High voltage transmission lines have a 2%-6% loss depending on voltage of line and other factors. Figure worst case scenario a 15% loss between the generation source and the consumer. You can get under 10% loss from generation to consumer in some scenarios.

Thats fairly efficient in my book!
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I get that but the point is that a nuclear plant can afford the loss over 200 miles … but how many extra solar panels to do that … in fact, I would assume when you look up these line loss numbers they are not a derivative of these lower energy sources.
 
For massive Mexico connections there should always be the DC alternative feasible like envisioned for crossing the mediterranean sea for example.
 
E365 said:
What’s your definition of “very little energy”?

Around 900,000,000,000 lbs. (900 BILLION pounds) of gasoline gets loaded into tens of thousands** of semi tanker trucks and driven to gas stations annually in the
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One need only look at the size of the fuel tank on the truck, vs what it delivers to it's destination, to visually understand the relationship.

Of course some fuel (energy) is consumed moving liquid (and or gaseous) energy around. The point is that the amount consumed is not a large percentage. On average, 11,600 gallon tanker trucks get 6.5mpg. Put another way, it would take 100 gallons of diesel to move 11,600 gallons 650 miles. Of course, distribution distance and method varies greatly by location. Trains, which are commonly used for longer distances, will move that same 11,600 gallon tank 650 miles and consume 26 gallons of diesel.

Pipelines may be just a little bit better... and well, we do use quite a bit of "shipping" too. Florida (my home) is served largely by ship. The result is competitive pricing.

crudeoil.png


An extreme example: 23,000 gallons.

Screenshot-2016-07-07-20.24.25-e1542643125106-1024x628.png
 
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Of course, here is an overview of the US natural gas pipeline system.

It's good to note that 61% of the USA's electrical power comes from natural gas or coal. Another 20% comes from nuclear power. EV's consume fuel, lots of it.
dependstates.gif
 
The energy to protect the safe transit of foreign oil is not in the equation.

Most estimates Ive seen put a dollar cost on it around 50-80B a year.
 
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Snagglefoot said:
This is a good point. CANADA is the largest supplier of imported oil to the USA, and mutually we enjoy the longest undefended border in the world.
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I should mod my post a bit.

Whether the oil comes to the states or not, the flow of oil through the straight of hormuz and other dangerous areas is enforced by the US military. Its part of preserving the petrodollar standard.
 
UncleDave said:
I should mod my post a bit.

Whether the oil comes to the states or not, the flow of oil through the straight of hormuz and other dangerous areas is enforced by the US military. Its part of preserving the petrodollar standard.
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Very good point. Thankfully, the US operates a fair number of nuclear powered craft.
 
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