Webasto must be killing it. I have had a few cars with OE Webasto heaters (Standheizung) and sunroofs and retrofitted heaters into a few VW/Audi and BMW cars. Like you say so much for fossil free.
EV school bus
- Thread starter Finklejag
- Start date
Would it need it? just a burner to make heat, right? no compression, so no NOx. All the air it wants. Might be pretty clean. Not saying you want to breathe the exhaust, but might not be too bad.
FWIW you have that backwards.. School buses are generally on a Class 6 or 7 truck frame and get pushed around by a 6 litre diesel engine . Your average 40 foot Transit bus needs a 10 litre diesel engine to push it around because it weighs more than a school bus.
Thomas is a Freightliner brand, which is part of the Daimler corporate structure.. they can warranty it if they feel so inclined.
That’s what I was thinking - a school bus, that sits about 20 hours a day, and short trips twice a day, is an ideal EV. Doesn’t need a lot of range. Ample time to recharge. Short trips with lots and lots of stopping allows use of regenerative braking.
Sounds like an ideal EV.
The school budget in Virginia Beach is about $1 Billion. Not a typo, it crossed the $900 million threshold a few years back. We buy a LOT of busses. I will have to talk with a good friend who is on the board about this. She’s not a “greenie” but she likes to save money, and this looks like a great way to reduce the cost to taxpayers.
I drove a school bus for almost 3 years as part of my post retirement boredom elimination routine.
depends on school district what the start times are for different schools and if they mix age levels of students but generally 3 sets of schools, start one hour apart.. hi school, middle school, elementary...
and they will always be distance limited to about how far they can get in aabout 20 minutes before they need to turn around pick up students and drive them 20 minutes back to school...
I had alonger route and it amounted to 140 miles a day..
I had a shorter route in the city and it was only about 60 miles a say.
machine sits parked for about 16 hours a day and more on holidays and weekends.
it could be done
Whole traction battery and plugged in to charge also. I agree that this is a case of a workable idea poorly executed. I would expect much better from Cummins/ Blue Bird. Well maybe not Blue Bird.
if they want to make it work, best way under current regime is to run a charger to every parking spot..
the problem in most applications is how to refuel.. doesn't matter if it is diesel, gasoline, CNG or and EV.
how do you refuel a large number of vehicles that have a similar schedule and all leave at the same time and return to the barn at the same time?
Several hundred busses in our case - but they’re sitting for 16-20 hours a day. The city is pretty thoughtful on how they’re used. We even have a bus tracker for kids to know where their bus is along it’s route.
They don’t need a supercharger each to replenish the 150 or so mile range used each day. Our city buys new busses every year. We have 630. So, it would be easy to convert over, say, the next ten years, with each new bus purchase. Each year, install the chargers for just the new busses In their spot.
I don’t know how we refuel the diesel ones now, but that is a lot of busses waiting for the pumps, idling. We have to pay drivers for that, which has a cost as well.
We buy a LOT of diesel. I’m thinking about saving money, as a taxpayer.
Our district covers about 400 square miles of very rugged hilly mountainous terrain. With the diesels holding 100 gallons and varying routes, they weren't fuelling at the same time. Some were every other day, a route like most I had was afternoon only and I would fuel every 5 or 6 days. Small district running about 22 buses daily. 1 diesel pump. The electrics on the other hand have been a bit more challenging as they installed the chargers inside the shop. Hard to work on something when the bay is plugged up with an electric charging. While I find the electrification interesting, I'm glad that I was able to retire and get clear of CA. when I did.
Sounds like poor implementation, if a service bay is required to charge. Also, for a small district with 22 busses, this is a big risk, it’s expensive. Let the big districts (like Virginia Beach) try it out and figure out the best practices, and total costs. We could run 50 busses as a beta test, and not put too much of the total budget at risk if they don’t work out.
Astro, one thing people don't seem to understand is that many school districts treat the transportation division like a poor step child.
Many School Boards have no interest or skill set in professional transportation management .
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This is Montgomery County, Maryland. They’re working with Highland Fleets.
The big test will be large contracted operators like First Student.
https://firststudentinc.com/innovation/electric-school-buses/
https://firststudentinc.com/resources/electric/helping-to-bring-electric-school-buses-to-alaska/
This kind of fleet needs a scaled test and roll out instead of converting all at once. In my urban district wirh minimal fleet maybe 20 bus big and small combined, it is easy to just build a small set of regular chargers for the 30 or so miles per day they run. They also have a lot of rooftop solar and it sort of offset some of the cost in charging or fueling.
I wouldn’t want a rural school district with mountains and winter weather to go EV right away though, won’t make sense for them till things are well proven.
Thing I don’t know is why we skip hybrid completely? It is such a proven tech for bus everyone is using them now.
I wouldn’t want a rural school district with mountains and winter weather to go EV right away though, won’t make sense for them till things are well proven.
Thing I don’t know is why we skip hybrid completely? It is such a proven tech for bus everyone is using them now.
Correct on all counts. The state is really pushing these and is picking up a lot of the cost. They are replacing some late 90s- early 2000s model buses in the name of reducing particulate matter and NoX emissions. The district just finished adding a huge solar project so that should help with charging costs. We are mountainous but not high enough in elevation to get snow.
I've helped chop up a school bus body. It's not well built at all ...
Public money makes it political by default.
I’m surprised no one asked why they do this? Is it really saving money for the district taxpayers versus running the busses two or three years as a example before swapping for new ones?
The idea of a test fleet of EV busses is a prudent one. What happened with municipalities that bought Proterra buses comes to mind.
