EV lots getting cleaned out.

Generally speaking, ICE is king for long distance. EVs, if they have 300+ mile range (the sweet spot) are pretty good.
Personally, I jump on a plane and fly. I should probably drive more.

Now, I travel 100 miles from home about twice a month, other use is less than 50 miles one way. The EV beats the snot outta ICE; it's not even close. The only rub is car insurance.

So many EV owners, even with the shortcomings, say they will never go back to ICE.There's a reason for it. My guess is, EVs will continue to take marketshare as they get better and charging at home improves (condos and apartments).

Interestingly, my neighbor told me there is a Supercharger at a shopping center near us that offers the 1st hour free. That's a lotta juice! I've never been on a Supercharger anywhere near an hour. And there is the local Community College a few blocks from here that costs 12 cents per kWh... Sheesh!
 
I always get a laugh regarding this. To save maybe 1 thousand a year on fuel, people will head off to spend and most likely finance an EV vehicle at atleast $50k.for over five years. Electricity cost isn't even factored in....:rolleyes:
The installation of a charger at home may not be factored in. And, what if your service enterance is too small already?
 
I have a database of all Ontario's grid data going back over 10 years, which includes our most recent solar installations, which aren't that old. That 3-4% is based on the output of those installations.

This was an exercise I did back in 2024, which was to take the entire installed solar capacity for the province, and apply the hourly output profile from our higher performing grid tied units to it, since hourly data isn't provided for the smaller installations, only the annual average (which is notably lower than for the grid-tied ones). So this is basically just our grid-tied capacity increased 5.5x for the first two weeks of January. 2nd two weeks are similar, which I can share if you are interested.
View attachment 343434
I think this hinges on the details of the calculation behind capacity factor.

Capacity factor is the ratio of total energy output to theoretical max power * time.

If the “time” part of that equation includes night time (aka the null values flanking this data), then that would dramatically depress the ratio for solar, since there are long periods of zero generation.

And that might be your point. I mean, that’s not irrelevant to point out for grid-level infrastructure. Solar doesn’t produce anywhere near its max theoretical power because well over half the time conditions are not ideal.

If I wanted to make capacity factor look better for solar, I would calculate it by dividing total energy output by the total theoretical power adjusted for time of day * daylight time.

In other words, this adjusted capacity factor would represent the ratio of how much energy is being captured vs. how much power could theoretically be output during every hour of daylight.

I’m not saying this is the correct way to do it, just posing it as a mental model.

Anyway, my 25% figure was peak efficiency, which is different.

Photosynthesis is only about 1-5% efficient, so the fact modern N-type bifacial panels are reaching into the 25% range is impressive, at least to me.

Here’s Jan-Mar data for a mixed vertical bifacial and south facing angled N-type array on a property I own in the north-central US. It is making roughly a third of what it makes in the summer… so I’m sure the capacity factor is garbage. But still, the net energy it is producing is not nothing, especially considering this is a residential property level install. Even the lowest month, December, produced enough energy for a Mach E to drive 400 miles.

IMG_0945.webp
IMG_0946.webp
IMG_0947.webp
IMG_0948.webp
 
Last edited:
A quick back of envelope estimate on my solar array puts the cost at under 9.7 cents per kWh assuming a 25 year life span. The panels themselves are warranted to produce 92% of faceplate capacity at the end of year 25 which means the assumed life span is conservative. @JeffKeryk may have a better set of numbers given how sunny it is in Califirnia.
What kind of return on investment are you assuming? Please provide your back of envelope calculations.
 
My personal observation (of people I know and seen) is that the stereotypical EV owner is a pretty nerdy guy who gets into using apps for everything and gets a kick out of the extra planning and strategy required to get from A to B in an EV. OTOH someone like my wife would go into a panic if she had to plan out when and where to charge using an app on long trips, and she would forget to do it until some alarm went off. It would add a lot of stress for her.
 
Assuming the battery cells were not affected, a cracked battery casing is a pretty easy fix. The problem is the repair knowledge is not widespread and for those who don't understand them, it seems like basically a black magic box.

A competent EV mechanic should be a able to fix a cracked battery casing in a day. i.e., obtain new/good used case, drop existing battery, transplant components, reinstall battery, test, complete. Most mechanics don't have the knowledge and the tooling though. You need a toolset that is similar to an electrical lineman's toolset, i.e., insulated wrenches and sockets, and the correct PPE, to do it safely.
I don’t believe this is true. You have any specifics? EV batteries have a whole cooling system between the cells. Most were never designed to be serviceable - unlike the NIMH Prius batteries of old.
 
Most were never designed to be serviceable - unlike the NIMH Prius batteries of old.
It's actually the opposite. Most vehicles use a modular pack that is designed to be serviceable at the cost of pack energy density. But manufactures are transitioning to structural Cell to Pack architectures that are more difficult to service, but cheaper and lighter. This is most common with LFP cells, which are large format prismatic cells. Eventually they'll probably go with the long, skinny LFP cells used in China since the current primary focus is cost reduction.
 
My personal observation (of people I know and seen) is that the stereotypical EV owner is a pretty nerdy guy who gets into using apps for everything and gets a kick out of the extra planning and strategy required to get from A to B in an EV. OTOH someone like my wife would go into a panic if she had to plan out when and where to charge using an app on long trips, and she would forget to do it until some alarm went off. It would add a lot of stress for her.
That's your observation and your opinion. Perhaps it is somewhat due to your location?
I can tell you the opposite is true around here. Here's some numbers for you:

EVs account for more than 43% of all new car sales in Santa Clara County (where I live). In terms of total registered vehicles, EVs make up a significantly higher per capita share than the rest of the country, with Santa Clara and San Mateo counties recording over 28 EVs per 1,000.

My street has numerous EVs, to go along with some pretty nice ICE vehicles. But you may be right about the nerdy part...
 
That's your observation and your opinion. Perhaps it is somewhat due to your location?
I can tell you the opposite is true around here. Here's some numbers for you:

EVs account for more than 43% of all new car sales in Santa Clara County (where I live). In terms of total registered vehicles, EVs make up a significantly higher per capita share than the rest of the country, with Santa Clara and San Mateo counties recording over 28 EVs per 1,000.

My street has numerous EVs, to go along with some pretty nice ICE vehicles. But you may be right about the nerdy part...
Location, location, location, and gas prices. That's my opinion as to why the sales percent is so high in CA. Around here I can count on one hand how many EVs are in the area, based on me walking as much as 5 days a week on the same 2.5 mile route. No comment on the nerdy part I never gave that much thought. Techy might sound a little better. ;)
 
Generally speaking, ICE is king for long distance. EVs, if they have 300+ mile range (the sweet spot) are pretty good.
My only hang up. We started doing long road trips. Went out to South Dakota. I also like to go to small rural towns and explore. It's doable from what everyone says, but it can be a bit stressful if you're not careful..

If/when chargers ever become significantly more common to find, the EV range issue won't be as big of a deal IMO.

1781797183069.webp
 
Location, location, location, and gas prices. That's my opinion as to why the sales percent is so high in CA. Around here I can count on one hand how many EVs are in the area, based on me walking as much as 5 days a week on the same 2.5 mile route. No comment on the nerdy part I never gave that much thought. Techy might sound a little better. ;)
Yep. EVs are not for everyone. The 1st thing I ask prospective buyers is, "How Ya gonna charge?" You might be surprised at the look on some of their faces. The #1 reason people go back to ICE is charging problems. I know of a few people who do not charge at home, but they are extreme cases; they are statistically insignifacant.

Use case, use case and use case.
 
My only hang up. We started doing long road trips. Went out to South Dakota. I also like to go to small rural towns and explore. It's doable from what everyone says, but it can be a bit stressful if you're not careful..

If/when chargers ever become significantly more common to find, the EV range issue won't be as big of a deal IMO.

View attachment 343594
The Tesla route planner is really good. Having said that, and after almost 8 years of EV ownership, I still have range anxiety. But I am getting better. I will say the one thing people may not understand is, stopping to charge can be a great experience. Ya never know; I like to learn new things. Who'da thunk it?
 
My personal observation (of people I know and seen) is that the stereotypical EV owner is a pretty nerdy guy who gets into using apps for everything and gets a kick out of the extra planning and strategy required to get from A to B in an EV. OTOH someone like my wife would go into a panic if she had to plan out when and where to charge using an app on long trips, and she would forget to do it until some alarm went off. It would add a lot of stress for her.

So, my mom got a used Bolt. Keep in mind it has no route planning capability and she is not technical and came from a 1995 Honda Accord.

I bought her the OEM GM Supercharger adapter and set up ChargePoint, Electrify America, and Tesla app on her phone.

But so far she has only ever used the ChargePoint stations downtown two minutes from her apartment. The only problem she ever had was the previous owner had a schedule set so when she tried to charge it the first time it wouldn’t do it. I walked her through how to check that and remove it and then all is well.

She never even uses the ChargePoint app, just the “Apple Pay” ChargePoint wallet integration.

She is a very intelligent and resourceful person but if my mom can do it, anyone can.

Now I know that doesn’t address the road trip and route planning side of things but she never does that.

I did let her “drive” (supervise) my Tesla for the hour drive to the Chevy dealer where we got her Bolt. Because the dealer next door had a used 2024 Model 3 and she was considering it for FSD. She loved it but ultimately decided the Bolt was a better fit for her.

But if road trips were a concern the Tesla is a no-brainer.

Every time I use GM’s route planning when I had the Prologue and in the Equinox EV it’s pretty much worthless. And apparently still better than what other companies have?

So yes we have some progress to make but we’re at the point where the average person can understand an EV. If they want to. Most people don’t. But my mom LOVES her new car.
 
@dogememe I don't even wanna think about going to a gas station! The huge waste of time coupled with gas prices is flat-out depressing. And I am talking about before the current fiasco... Sheesh!

Waking up to an 80% charged car everyday, for next to nothing fuel cost, has to be experienced to be appreciated. I never would have understood. Probably more than the $$; it's the convenience!
 
I think this hinges on the details of the calculation behind capacity factor.

Capacity factor is the ratio of total energy output to theoretical max power * time.

If the “time” part of that equation includes night time (aka the null values flanking this data), then that would dramatically depress the ratio for solar, since there are long periods of zero generation.

And that might be your point. I mean, that’s not irrelevant to point out for grid-level infrastructure. Solar doesn’t produce anywhere near its max theoretical power because well over half the time conditions are not ideal.
Yes, that's the standard method through which capacity factor is calculated.
If I wanted to make capacity factor look better for solar, I would calculate it by dividing total energy output by the total theoretical power adjusted for time of day * daylight time.

In other words, this adjusted capacity factor would represent the ratio of how much energy is being captured vs. how much power could theoretically be output during every hour of daylight.

I’m not saying this is the correct way to do it, just posing it as a mental model.

Anyway, my 25% figure was peak efficiency, which is different.
Playing with the calculation of course eliminates the ability to compare it with other sources. Solar is a good summer peaking resource, as, at moderate levels of penetration, its output profile aligns well with peak periods historically filled by gas plants, particularly when paired with moderate levels of storage to cover the ramps. The problem is that winter peaks do not occur during these periods, so, as a winter resource, it does not provide the same value, which, combined with much lower output, creates an energy availability issue.

Efficiency and output are of course very different things. On a clear day during the winter, it's quite easy to hit peak efficiency, but output is going to be considerably lower because of the reduced hours of production, which your graphs below also show. Unfortunately, at least up here, snow cover and a lack of clear skies make those periods reasonably infrequent, which you can see in the graph I provided.

Going back to capacity factor for a moment, CF's for solar in the low-to-mid 20's are also quite common for us here, in the summer months, that's why I specifically brought up the winter period, which presents a very different slate of challenges.
Photosynthesis is only about 1-5% efficient, so the fact modern N-type bifacial panels are reaching into the 25% range is impressive, at least to me.

Here’s Jan-Mar data for a mixed vertical bifacial and south facing angled N-type array on a property I own in the north-central US. It is making roughly a third of what it makes in the summer… so I’m sure the capacity factor is garbage. But still, the net energy it is producing is not nothing, especially considering this is a residential property level install. Even the lowest month, December, produced enough energy for a Mach E to drive 400 miles.

View attachment 343551View attachment 343552View attachment 343553View attachment 343554
I was more addressing your point on self-sufficiency and claim that this could be mostly achieved by solar being placed elsewhere on a property, not just a roof. And that the market would ultimately "sort this out" when compared to competing sources. The 114kWh you posted above for the month of December wouldn't even touch my energy consumption for that month:
December 2025 Hydro Bill.webp


let alone provide some level of self sustenance.

The push to electrify things exasperates the issue (I have a hybrid HVAC system that uses a heat pump for temps warmer than about -8C) as heating demand is highest during the hours that solar isn't producing.

I'm not anti solar by any stretch, but we have to be realistic about its abilities; about its strengths and weaknesses as a source.
 
Back
Top Bottom