EV for people who hate EV's...

Even if you take one trip a year - and the vast majority of people do, then there is no longer any advantage to an EV.

They cost more up front. Unless you live somewhere that gas is expensive the ROI is not there (current used prices might actually negate this)

EV's are super sporty fast. Most people could care less. I do not.

Many people do not have a place to plug in - they street park. Even if you do - you need to likely get a 240V outlet installed.

There just isn't any clear enough advantage for me to consider an EV. I only see disadvantages. I am not anti EV - but the pro EV's crowd advocation usually involves arguments that provide no advantage, only disadvantage, to a typical user.

Now if you live where gas is $5, I get it. Gas was $2.719 here this AM.
Yep. As you say, an EV can make sense depending on your use case and your wants. Just like any vehicle choice.
I bought the new M3P; no one needs this much performance. Just like no one needs a Vette, Porsche, Bro Dozer. MBZ, you name it.
You should have seen this Lambo we saw on Saturday. OMG the sound... I don't know what model, maybe, but it was new and out-of-this-world! Maybe the Revuelto? The roofline ain't much higher than the wheel well...

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I would buy an EV for a 2nd vehicle for local driving.
IF:
  • Cheaper than cheapest gas car
  • Could charge at home each night so would NEVER have to go to a gas station for fillup.
  • Have gas or hybrid for travel - want no part of route dictated by charge station availability.
As far as government incentives, they only reduce your tax bill. I'm on fixed income so low I don't pay Fed Tax. If they offered me a $10k check to buy one, I'd consider it.

If they want us to drive EV's and China is selling them for $12k. Why not give us access to them?
Of course then it becomes clear, it's all about money - and yet, they expect us to shell out premium amounts for the "trendy" EV fad.
This is a very well written explanation, IMHO.
 
I would buy an EV for a 2nd vehicle for local driving.
IF:
  • Cheaper than cheapest gas car
  • Could charge at home each night so would NEVER have to go to a gas station for fillup.
  • Have gas or hybrid for travel - want no part of route dictated by charge station availability.
As far as government incentives, they only reduce your tax bill. I'm on fixed income so low I don't pay Fed Tax. If they offered me a $10k check to buy one, I'd consider it.

If they want us to drive EV's and China is selling them for $12k. Why not give us access to them?
Of course then it becomes clear, it's all about money - and yet, they expect us to shell out premium amounts for the "trendy" EV fad.
All I can tell you is, my preconceived EV opinions were close but no cigar. But that's just me.
 
People who hate EVs don't buy EVs, ask me how I know. ;)
I mean, some people will never buy an EV, no matter what. It could offer a better user experience at a lower cost of operation, and they'll still pass. And that's fine, life is full of choices.

I do think there's a place for a vehicle that offers a tradition car experience, with the benefits of an electric motor (which are real, whether you want to believe that or not). I mean, if instantaneous torque, more quiet operation and lower cost of ownership don't interest you, that's totally cool, but there are definitely benefits to them.
 
The only ev's I've seen non ev guys drive around these parts are the chick magnets like the hummer and cybertruck. So is this a chick magnet?
Well, the sales lady said in reference to the size of the car "no fat chicks", so there's that! Funny thing is that I think that's the only 3 words of English she knew! Fortunately my wife is small, so it works...
 
Well, the sales lady said in reference to the size of the car "no fat chicks", so there's that! Funny thing is that I think that's the only 3 words of English she knew! Fortunately my wife is small, so it works...
It's wild here in Texas. I've seen women from little old scrawny grandmas to big tall fat ones daily drive 3/4 ton and 1 ton dually trucks. Wildest I've seen was a little old asian lady drive a dually ram about 3 years ago.
 
I mean, some people will never buy an EV, no matter what. It could offer a better user experience at a lower cost of operation, and they'll still pass. And that's fine, life is full of choices.

I do think there's a place for a vehicle that offers a tradition car experience, with the benefits of an electric motor (which are real, whether you want to believe that or not). I mean, if instantaneous torque, more quiet operation and lower cost of ownership don't interest you, that's totally cool, but there are definitely benefits to them.
You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I. If/when I think the grid and the EV is ready for prime time maybe, but that's still decades away. Now that I'm retired and I have the freedom to travel whenever and wherever I want ICE is even more enticing. Filling up is still faster and easier, and will be for many years to come.
 
Each to their own. Different locales are more appropriate for an EV. Each of us has our own use case and wants.

Having said that, the anti-EV crowd is highly comprised of people who have never owned an EV. Lots of mis-conceptions...
I considered our 1st EV a toy; I was wrong. While it is a very fun vehicle, it is far more than a toy.
Again, each to their own. All good.
 
I would buy an EV for a 2nd vehicle for local driving.
IF:
  • Cheaper than cheapest gas car
  • Could charge at home each night so would NEVER have to go to a gas station for fillup.
  • Have gas or hybrid for travel - want no part of route dictated by charge station availability.
As far as government incentives, they only reduce your tax bill. I'm on fixed income so low I don't pay Fed Tax. If they offered me a $10k check to buy one, I'd consider it.

If they want us to drive EV's and China is selling them for $12k. Why not give us access to them?
Of course then it becomes clear, it's all about money - and yet, they expect us to shell out premium amounts for the "trendy" EV fad.
Buy a used Bolt that's had it's battery replaced already, it would meet your criteria, and has a battery warranty through 150K and 2032 in many cases.
 
And to respond to the OP, an EV for people that hate EVs would be most non-Tesla EVs that have normal driving controls. My Mach-E is like that, mostly normal controls. With the exception of the electric button activated doors, but anyway.
 
I would buy an EV for a 2nd vehicle for local driving.
IF:
  • Cheaper than cheapest gas car
  • Could charge at home each night so would NEVER have to go to a gas station for fillup.
  • Have gas or hybrid for travel - want no part of route dictated by charge station availability.
As far as government incentives, they only reduce your tax bill. I'm on fixed income so low I don't pay Fed Tax. If they offered me a $10k check to buy one, I'd consider it.

If they want us to drive EV's and China is selling them for $12k. Why not give us access to them?
Of course then it becomes clear, it's all about money - and yet, they expect us to shell out premium amounts for the "trendy" EV fad.
That's what I tell people.
Git one as a second vehicle.
I say the only place they should ever be mandated is toilet bowls with poor air quality. Usually about 8 out of the top 10 worst air pollution cities in the US are all in California so that works for me.
 
Buy a used Bolt that's had it's battery replaced already, it would meet your criteria, and has a battery warranty through 150K and 2032 in many cases.
Used bolt with a new battery is still $15 to $20K around here.

It would never pay for itself as a second around town vehicle even if electricity was free, which it is not.
 
Used bolt with a new battery is still $15 to $20K around here.

It would never pay for itself as a second around town vehicle even if electricity was free, which it is not.
Mine has saved about $9,000 worth of gas and only used about $2,500 worth of electricity. It's pretty much paid for it's self.
 
Used bolt with a new battery is still $15 to $20K around here.

It would never pay for itself as a second around town vehicle even if electricity was free, which it is not.
That's bordering on a straw man argument, you appear to be comparing it to having no car at all. No car is ever going to pay for itself. A bicycle doesn't even pay for itself, you have to feed the engine.

What used gas car that's relatively new and reliable could you buy for that kind of money? I have seen a number of them in the $10-15K range, also, with less than 50K miles.

For me, with the 14MPG ICE car being definitely the 2nd car at this point, it's not too hard to justify a 13K Bolt as a replacement. If I put 3 tanks of gas in my Navigator it costs around $200 a month plus insurance, maintenance, etc. And it needs about $2K sunk into it if I want to keep it long term.
 
I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that EV's received the amount of shade they do here. While there of course the ultra-ridiculous "if it doesn't go 800 miles and charge in 2 minutes, I'm not interested" crowd, I think there's more it than just random EV hate.
I have never, ever read anything like that. I have read, and posted EV's will be compared to a gas fill up. 3 minutes for a 400 mile range. Sorry but thats a 100% fair comparison, the new product vs. the standard. Its seems you really want to play the "victim card" for EV's here.
I don't hate EV's at all. I do hate the attempt to ram them down the consumers throat by the authorities. People need to choose for themselves.
 
On a site with fossil fuels in the name, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that EV's received the amount of shade they do here. While there of course the ultra-ridiculous "if it doesn't go 800 miles and charge in 2 minutes, I'm not interested" crowd, I think there's more it than just random EV hate. A lot of EV's simply seem to look and feel more like a high-tech appliance than what most people consider to be a "car". I'm in my mid-fifties and have been driving since I was 15, so I certainly fall into that category. Many EV's seem more like Iphones to me than cars. Personally, I'm OK embracing the new experience, even as a long-time car guy.

But... roads let me a different direction, and upon spending a few months in my new car, I couldn't help think "this is an EV a Bitog'r would love!". Enter, my new ride, the VW E-Up!

View attachment 239548

First, I had three different cars from the VW MK7 Golf family (Alltrack, GTi and Golf R), so this my color my thoughts a bit, but this is the simplest car to operate I've ever been in. All of the controls are dead simple. If you've never sat in a VW, you would still know where everything is in about 2 minutes.

Secondly, there is almost nothing to differentiate this car from a gasoline car. Of course, part of that is because they make this same car with a gas engine. Still, when you get in it, it just feels like a car. Not an X-Box. Not an Iphone. Just a very simple car.

Lastly, this is one of the rare "put batteries in a gasoline car" platforms where the end result is actually better than the gas version. I've driven both, and while you feel the weight a bit in the corners, it feels a bit more planted to me, it's a lot quieter, and seems to get blown around a lot less on the highway. It also feels a lot faster than the numbers suggest, due to the high torque and low weight. The operating costs on this car are incredibly low.

Downsides? Well, first, if you need a lot of space it isn't the car for you. The car is much more spacious than a lot of cars in this segment (Fiat 500, for instance). It has usable rear seats and reasonable cargo space. Funny thing is, while today this is considered a micro car by many, it's roughly the size of my MK1 GTi (and has more overall cargo space). In many ways, it actually reminds me of my first GTi. For me, the small size is actually why I bought this car. Originally, I was had a deposit on a VW ID3, but after 2 weeks in a rental car that was the same size, I realized it was just far too big. My wife and I moved to a small village in Spain, and the roads here are tiny, as is the entrance to our garage. I just didn't want to worry about not being able to get to our house some days because of how someone else parked.

And the big one that causes so much heartburn: range. I can get an honest 160 miles out of this car, shocking considering that's the published range and it had 30K on it when I bought it. That said, there's very little highway driving, and--the bigger reason it's not an issue--I live on a small island. The longest drive I've done in a day is about 70 miles, and had a bit more than half of the battery left. Range anxiety will never be a thing for me with this car. If I'm doing a long road trip, I'll rent something. That said, 2 things come to mind: 1: I would have loved to have this car in Seattle. It would have sufficed for 95% of my trips just fine, been easier to park, and perfectly suitable for the driving there. 2: medium distance trips aren't actually that bad with it. I bought the car from a dealer in Madrid (cars are crazy expensive on the island), and had to drive it to the ferry, about 300 miles. I did charge twice on the trip, both times at a Repsol on the highway. 37kW is the fastest charging speed on "fast charge", but with a battery this size, that means 40 minutes and you're from 20% to 80-85% in about 40 minutes. And while I generally hate stopping for gas, Repsol totally changes that dynamic for me. Stop in and get a sandwich, pastry and a coffee, and by the time I'm done the car is charged. Simple. Honestly, for a road trip where you aren't in a hurry, it was actually fine. And, part of moving here is to never have to be in a hurry again! So, no pasa nada... The thing is, the small range is also what makes this car great--it's still quite light and maneuverable.

Overall, I have to say I'm a big fan of this car. I got it thinking "I'll get a real car later", but it the longer I have it the more I see it as being my main ride. It definitely feels like the "anti-EV EV".
Ahh the E Up! (With an exclamation point) We're told that it wouldn't sell in the USA or would be prohibitedly expensive to crash test with the small market. Is there a GLI Or type 'R" version?
 
So a person has to own an EV to validate the reasons they don’t like them? Hilarious.

I don’t like little low cars but I’m going to buy one to prove it to myself for certain.
So you think actual experience doesn't matter? Now that's hilarious.
 
That's bordering on a straw man argument, you appear to be comparing it to having no car at all. No car is ever going to pay for itself. A bicycle doesn't even pay for itself, you have to feed the engine.

What used gas car that's relatively new and reliable could you buy for that kind of money? I have seen a number of them in the $10-15K range, also, with less than 50K miles.

For me, with the 14MPG ICE car being definitely the 2nd car at this point, it's not too hard to justify a 13K Bolt as a replacement. If I put 3 tanks of gas in my Navigator it costs around $200 a month plus insurance, maintenance, etc. And it needs about $2K sunk into it if I want to keep it long term.
Not really. A poster threw out what it would take for him to buy an EV as a second vehicle, you replied, and a used Bolt does not meet the criteria he laid out - there too expensive up front - the ones with the extended warranty at least.

And then you tried comparing it to a Lincoln navigator for an operational cost. Laughable. Why not a Mach truck ?
 
I have never, ever read anything like that. I have read, and posted EV's will be compared to a gas fill up. 3 minutes for a 400 mile range. Sorry but thats a 100% fair comparison, the new product vs. the standard. Its seems you really want to play the "victim card" for EV's here.
I don't hate EV's at all. I do hate the attempt to ram them down the consumers throat by the authorities. People need to choose for themselves.
I charge at home overnight, not to mention next to nothing for the electricity because I have solar.
ICE cars have to go somewhere to fuel up. "3 minutes for 400 mile range" is a pretty rare vehicle experience.
 
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