Some good advice in this thread. Please let us know how it goes. Their claim that the twisted filter led to the motor putting a new oil passage in the side of the block is a load of ----!
engine is toast b/c of twisted oil filter???
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That problem is not related to the oil filter. This looks to me like preignition, a lean condition in #1, or piston failure. (Well obviously the piston failed, but it is a chicken/egg scenario.) If the oiling system were to blame, the cams would show it.. they are the farthest away from the source of lubricant.
What brand and PN filter? manual or automatic?
Was the oil overfilled or underfilled? Or do you just have blind faith with the quicklube?
There are too many variables here to investigate.
Oil could've been low or excessively high.
Oil filter could have been loose, but with the squish on that filter, it could've been too tight. Were there any cracks in the plastic filter housing? does the quicklube own a torque wrench?
The engine needs to be torn down preferably with a witness.
If there is a lube issue everywhere, then you pay.
If there is not, then it was a mechanical failure(cheap or loose component).
Because of the initial high engine failure rate caused by quicklubes, the dealer acted appropriately. But, they should've investigated completely. All the 2.3 quicklube failures were caused by cracked plastic filter housings, grossly overtightened, and usually failure occurred when engine ran out of oil from the leaky crack.
Was the oil overfilled or underfilled? Or do you just have blind faith with the quicklube?
There are too many variables here to investigate.
Oil could've been low or excessively high.
Oil filter could have been loose, but with the squish on that filter, it could've been too tight. Were there any cracks in the plastic filter housing? does the quicklube own a torque wrench?
The engine needs to be torn down preferably with a witness.
If there is a lube issue everywhere, then you pay.
If there is not, then it was a mechanical failure(cheap or loose component).
Because of the initial high engine failure rate caused by quicklubes, the dealer acted appropriately. But, they should've investigated completely. All the 2.3 quicklube failures were caused by cracked plastic filter housings, grossly overtightened, and usually failure occurred when engine ran out of oil from the leaky crack.
FIRST OFF LET ME SAY THAT I TALKED TO MY BROTHER IN LAW ON SUNDAY AND HE TOLD ME THAT A GUY WITH A 2005 MAZDA 6 4 CYLINDER (SAME AS MY CAR) CAME IN AND THE SAME EXACT THING HAD HAPPENED TO HIS MAZDA...AND HE HAD GOTTEN HIS OIL CHANGED AT MAZDA EVERYTIME!!! SO THAT IS PROOF RIGHT THERE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING WRONG WITH THESE MAZDA ENGINES. SO ANYWAY MY DAD MUST HAVE SCARED THEM OVER THERE AT THE DEALERSHIP BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE GIVING ME A NEW ENGINE
AND THEY WILL BE PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE RENTAL CAR BILL AS WELL. YAY FOR ME!! BASICALLY MY DAD TOLD THEM THAT HE WOULD FIGHT THIS ONE TO THE END BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GONNA PAY FOR A NEW ENGINE. THEY FINALLY BACKED DOWN AND GAVE IN. THEY HAD TO. I JUST FEEL REALLY BAD FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DONT DO ANY KIND OF RESEARCH ON THESE THINGS AND THEY GO AHEAD AND BUY A NEW ENGINE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ONE FREE OF CHARGE BECAUSE ITS A DEFECT IN THE ENGINE AND NOT ANYTHING ELSE. WELL, IM JUST GLAD THAT I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT NOW. I WONT HAVE MY CAR FOR PROBABLY 3 WEEKS TO A MONTH BUT THATS OK, AS LONG AS ITS GONNA BE FIXED. DO YOU THINK THAT THE NEW ENGINE WILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM ABOUT 36,000 MILES DOWN THE ROAD? I WONDER IF THEY HAVE FIXED THE DEFECT IN THE NEW ENGINES, BECAUSE IF THEY HAVEN'T, THEN WOULDN'T IT BE A GOOD IDEA TO SELL MY CAR AND GET A DIFFERENT ONE SO I DONT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN A COUPLE YEARS FROM NOW??? LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. AND THANX FOR ALL THE GREAT INPUT GUYS!!
TAMARA
TAMARA
Congrats Tamara. I'm glad they are taking care of it for you. I hope my Fusion doesn't have the same issue down the road
guys,
In as much as I would like to disagree/agree with some of your anecdotal "observations" RE: car manufacturers don't care about their products no more, the truth of the matter is, it's the dealership(s) who refused to handle your case(s), not the manufacturers.
(*yes, I served a few dealerships before so I know the inner workings of them*)
Unlike some countries where dealerships who carry specific brands also act as a direct representatives of that car manufacturer, unfortunately, not so in N.A. where any joe blau can apply for the retailing of certain brands of vehicles and yet does not represent the real interest of that particular brand name, and even if joe blau's XXX brand dealerships gave that brand a bad rep, the auto manufacturers can do little about it (unlike the appointment system in some countries where the automanufacturers can revoke such dealership's selling rights, cut off their agreed profit margin and let the dealership wither and die).
Also: most dealerships care about here in N.A. are bottomline, profit margins and rapid turnarounds. They typically do not want any dealings with warranty repairs for the redemption of the cost associated with such repair usually takes weeks, if not months and for some domestics, they can only claim back a portion of their costs associated to such warranty repair (and I know of 1 particular domestic brand for such notorious behaviour)
*********************************************************
Bottomline: when in doubt, always threaten the stealership with lawsuits to give them pressure to conform and always seek out the true representatives of the auto manufacturer(s). They are interested in maintaining their reputation, good PR and much more and fast turnaround, profit margin and money makers aren't in their callings. I know at least a handful of automanufacturers who honour any mechanical-related issues (defective workmanship, design errors, etc.) sometimes covering such service with internal TSB, others under either goodwill programs or other services).
Instead of start blaming auto-manufacturers for fault/inability to absorb your issues, I would start looking for a better representatives to handle your call.
Also: for those folks who claimed that all vehicles sold these days are junk for having lots of mechanical/electrical/electronic defects when compared with cars of yore please take notice: even a lowly Accent or Echo/Yaris sold in continental N.A. these days are magnitudes more complicated than what it used to be some 30~40yrs ago, citing additional safety requirements (additional added SRS systems, speed sensing device, ABS, EBD, roll control, etc.) and emissions controls. So the more complicated the systems has become, the more likely you'll see things fail and all vehicle manufacturers are fair game in this regard.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
In as much as I would like to disagree/agree with some of your anecdotal "observations" RE: car manufacturers don't care about their products no more, the truth of the matter is, it's the dealership(s) who refused to handle your case(s), not the manufacturers.
(*yes, I served a few dealerships before so I know the inner workings of them*)
Unlike some countries where dealerships who carry specific brands also act as a direct representatives of that car manufacturer, unfortunately, not so in N.A. where any joe blau can apply for the retailing of certain brands of vehicles and yet does not represent the real interest of that particular brand name, and even if joe blau's XXX brand dealerships gave that brand a bad rep, the auto manufacturers can do little about it (unlike the appointment system in some countries where the automanufacturers can revoke such dealership's selling rights, cut off their agreed profit margin and let the dealership wither and die).
Also: most dealerships care about here in N.A. are bottomline, profit margins and rapid turnarounds. They typically do not want any dealings with warranty repairs for the redemption of the cost associated with such repair usually takes weeks, if not months and for some domestics, they can only claim back a portion of their costs associated to such warranty repair (and I know of 1 particular domestic brand for such notorious behaviour)
*********************************************************
Bottomline: when in doubt, always threaten the stealership with lawsuits to give them pressure to conform and always seek out the true representatives of the auto manufacturer(s). They are interested in maintaining their reputation, good PR and much more and fast turnaround, profit margin and money makers aren't in their callings. I know at least a handful of automanufacturers who honour any mechanical-related issues (defective workmanship, design errors, etc.) sometimes covering such service with internal TSB, others under either goodwill programs or other services).
Instead of start blaming auto-manufacturers for fault/inability to absorb your issues, I would start looking for a better representatives to handle your call.
Also: for those folks who claimed that all vehicles sold these days are junk for having lots of mechanical/electrical/electronic defects when compared with cars of yore please take notice: even a lowly Accent or Echo/Yaris sold in continental N.A. these days are magnitudes more complicated than what it used to be some 30~40yrs ago, citing additional safety requirements (additional added SRS systems, speed sensing device, ABS, EBD, roll control, etc.) and emissions controls. So the more complicated the systems has become, the more likely you'll see things fail and all vehicle manufacturers are fair game in this regard.
My 2c's worth.
Q.
I am curious if major engine damage always occurs when someone finds the used filter cartridge is twisted. I have had a Saturn for seven years with a cartridge filter. I've done every oil change on this car myself and have never had a twisted filter cartridge, but I have always used the oem filter in this vehicle. This is the only vehicle I have owned where the oem filter costs less than the aftermarket filters and the oem filter comes from Germany.
BGK, there are some posts on here where folks have reported that the Hengst filters came out of Ecotec's and were a bit compressed as opposed to twisted. Do you see that with your Saturn?
What on earth is a "twisted" oil filter ??...
Quote:
What on earth is a "twisted" oil filter ??...
It's what Dee Snider uses on his vehicles
It is the cartridge that is twisted. Since we screw to cover on the can holding the filter I wonder if we should be oiling the ends of the cartridge. Maybe high friction is causing the problem. The cover does need to compress the cartridge to effect a seal. JMO Ed
My Subaru lost a piston early on in it's life. Just the piston broke in pieces, but the loose con rod took care of the rest of the block. There were no signs of lubrication problems.
what's with the melted splash guard? Something must have been generating a lot of heat here, for the con rod piece to melt itself into the lower engine cover. Maybe the oil took a vacation.
what's with the melted splash guard? Something must have been generating a lot of heat here, for the con rod piece to melt itself into the lower engine cover. Maybe the oil took a vacation.
Quote:
FIRST OFF LET ME SAY THAT I TALKED TO MY BROTHER IN LAW ON SUNDAY AND HE TOLD ME THAT A GUY WITH A 2005 MAZDA 6 4 CYLINDER (SAME AS MY CAR) CAME IN AND THE SAME EXACT THING HAD HAPPENED TO HIS MAZDA...AND HE HAD GOTTEN HIS OIL CHANGED AT MAZDA EVERYTIME!!! SO THAT IS PROOF RIGHT THERE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING GOING WRONG WITH THESE MAZDA ENGINES. SO ANYWAY MY DAD MUST HAVE SCARED THEM OVER THERE AT THE DEALERSHIP BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE GIVING ME A NEW ENGINEAND THEY WILL BE PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE RENTAL CAR BILL AS WELL. YAY FOR ME!! BASICALLY MY DAD TOLD THEM THAT HE WOULD FIGHT THIS ONE TO THE END BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GONNA PAY FOR A NEW ENGINE. THEY FINALLY BACKED DOWN AND GAVE IN. THEY HAD TO. I JUST FEEL REALLY BAD FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY DONT DO ANY KIND OF RESEARCH ON THESE THINGS AND THEY GO AHEAD AND BUY A NEW ENGINE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE ENTITLED TO ONE FREE OF CHARGE BECAUSE ITS A DEFECT IN THE ENGINE AND NOT ANYTHING ELSE. WELL, IM JUST GLAD THAT I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT NOW. I WONT HAVE MY CAR FOR PROBABLY 3 WEEKS TO A MONTH BUT THATS OK, AS LONG AS ITS GONNA BE FIXED. DO YOU THINK THAT THE NEW ENGINE WILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM ABOUT 36,000 MILES DOWN THE ROAD? I WONDER IF THEY HAVE FIXED THE DEFECT IN THE NEW ENGINES, BECAUSE IF THEY HAVEN'T, THEN WOULDN'T IT BE A GOOD IDEA TO SELL MY CAR AND GET A DIFFERENT ONE SO I DONT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN A COUPLE YEARS FROM NOW??? LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. AND THANX FOR ALL THE GREAT INPUT GUYS!!
TAMARA
Can you please tell me what oil filter brand you used and what was the part number??
Thanks
I think you owe your Dad a big hug! I think im gonna cry.............
He did what it took. Hope your new engine has many happy miles...............
He did what it took. Hope your new engine has many happy miles...............
Quote:
Quote:
What on earth is a "twisted" oil filter ??...
It's what Dee Snider uses on his vehicles
Good one! We're not gonna take it any more...
I have this same engine and I haven't had a problem with cartridges twisting. I don't oil the ends. So far I've used Pure One, Napa Gold and MotorCraft carts with 0 twist.
Even so, the twisting cartridge is not the cause of the problem, like so many have stated. This is a bunch of B.S.
Here is a list of cartridge numbers I have compiled for the 2.3L Duratec engine.
http://www.fordfusionclub.com/index.php?topic=82031.0
Even so, the twisting cartridge is not the cause of the problem, like so many have stated. This is a bunch of B.S.
Here is a list of cartridge numbers I have compiled for the 2.3L Duratec engine.
http://www.fordfusionclub.com/index.php?topic=82031.0
I work at a FORD dealership and can tell you that I pull Original OEM and Motorcraft filters that are both straight and Twisted all the time. Normal for that engine!!! Yes we only use Motorcraft. But I have pulled Virgin Oil Change cars filters that were twisted.
We have that engine configuration in the Fusion and also very similarly in the Escape Hybrid.
1) In case of engine damage due to a defective oil filter, the filter maker is always liable for the cost of the repairs. The big problem comes when trying to determine the cause of the failure.
2) Folks need to get the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act info right. The car maker has every right to require that you use parts made to the OEM specs. If those specs aren't published (and OEM oil filter specs aren't), then you're relying on the aftermarket filter maker to cover you in case of filter failure. The filter makers does IF you use the filter shown in the catalog for that engine.
Here's how the FTC describes what the Act says:
"Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product."
So...what is "inappropriate" in an oil filter? Certainly one that fails. Probably one that is not in the catalog listing for that engine.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm#Magnuson-Moss
2) Folks need to get the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act info right. The car maker has every right to require that you use parts made to the OEM specs. If those specs aren't published (and OEM oil filter specs aren't), then you're relying on the aftermarket filter maker to cover you in case of filter failure. The filter makers does IF you use the filter shown in the catalog for that engine.
Here's how the FTC describes what the Act says:
"Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product."
So...what is "inappropriate" in an oil filter? Certainly one that fails. Probably one that is not in the catalog listing for that engine.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm#Magnuson-Moss
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