Engine Damage caused from 0W20/5W20?

[Urshurak776]

I think this thread is 13 years old?

Anyway, Both my Mazda's, for now, have gotten 0W-20. I intend to switch both of them over to 5W-30 this Spring. I want to keep them a while, and the data shows that a thicker oil will protect better. Does that mean it wouldn't be fine if I stuck with 0W-20? Maybe it comes down to longevity. How long would it last on 0W-20 vs 5W-30? I'm sure there is a number/average. For most people, that get rid of their car every 4-5 years, probably doesn't matter at all. Maybe a slight uptick in gas mileage by sticking with 0W-20.

The common answer in this thread is, the science/data is there, decision is up to you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ The way I look at it is having more wear protection may lead to a mechanically healthier engine over the long run - ie, less wear on the rings and cylinders for instance could mean a better running more efficient engine as the miles pile on. That might not matter to some people. like those who trade vehicles often or have the mind set that it's probably going to get totalled or rust out before the miles pile on. A xW-20 would probably be just fine for most vehicles cruising around normally on the roads. I've always bumped up to xW-30 on anything specifying a xW-20. Never see any real difference in fuel mileage. One expisode of rowing through the gears to near redline will extinguish any possible fuel mileage gains from running a thinner oil, and I don't want the thinner oil when getting on it like that anyway, lol.

 

[oil pan 4]

Has anyone heard of any documented evidence or even credible rumors that someone running 0W20 or 5W20 has had engine damage or increased wear?

Reason I ask, with all the oil change shops changing oil, and misinformed customers, there are an awful lot of people asking about it because a shop put the wrong grade oil in (xW20 instead of xW30).

But I haven't found anyone who has had a shop do it and it actually hurt an engine. Plenty of stories of places like Walmart/Jiffy Lube, etc who did it to a customer for a long time and they never knew until they looked closely at the records and found out much later.

The more I study it, and it is a deep topic, very deep, I would be surprised it would hurt. Unless it is an engine that is either already in sad shape or a just a sloppy built engine.

Anyone?

The only way I've seen "not using 0w damage an engine" was there was a jeep technical advisory that came out after someone snapped their oil pump drive starting their car in cold weather that wasn't that cold. I'd bet the person who snapped their oil pump drive wasn't using 0w and they probably weren't even using a 5w. So jeep provided an updated chat of what oil to use at your expected cold temperature.
Long story short the cut off viscosity was about 6,000cP.
So if you select a winter weight that won't thicken up more than 6,000cP for your expected low temp you'll always be good.
My expected low temperature is about 0f so I should be fine running a 10w.
Every few years it gets down to -10f so I normally use 5w in machines that get 1 oil change a year and get ran in the winter just in case it's one of those years.

 

[wemay]

Way too many variables to come to any definitive conclusion. For every oil consuming vehicle where a low viscosity is recommended and used, you can find the same where high HT/HS oil is the recommendation and used.

On the flip side, the same goes for MPG. (way too many variables)

 

[Brian123]

I think this thread is 13 years old?

Anyway, Both my Mazda's, for now, have gotten 0W-20. I intend to switch both of them over to 5W-30 this Spring. I want to keep them a while, and the data shows that a thicker oil will protect better. Does that mean it wouldn't be fine if I stuck with 0W-20? Maybe it comes down to longevity. How long would it last on 0W-20 vs 5W-30? I'm sure there is a number/average. For most people, that get rid of their car every 4-5 years, probably doesn't matter at all. Maybe a slight uptick in gas mileage by sticking with 0W-20.

The common answer in this thread is, the science/data is there, decision is up to you.

It is almost 13 years old, meaning this Thread.
If you drive like a normal person OW-20 should be fine, if you drive it harder, a 5W-30 would be better. What is most important is checking your oil level, like once a week. I know the title of this Thread mentioned 5W-20, but I am going with 5W-30.

Engine Damage caused by 0W-20 or 5W-20, yes, if you extend your OCI or under certain driving conditions. Realize that a 5W-30 will hold up better.

 

[ZeeOSix]

"Too many variables" is why there are controlled studies and tests where the same conclusion is pretty much made that more HTHS viscosity results in more film thickness between moving parts which gives more separation and less rubbing. That results in less wear and more wear protection. The oil viscosity always has and always will be the main mitigation factor in engine wear, all other factors held constant.

 

[wemay]

"Too many variables" is why there are controlled studies and tests where the same conclusion is pretty much made that more HTHS viscosity results in more film thickness between moving parts which gives more separation and less rubbing. That results in less wear and more wear protection. The oil viscosity always has and always will be the main mitigation factor in engine wear, all other factors held constant.

Completely agree. But to what end do these tests discern engine longevity between the two. I does not. Of course we should all agree that a higher HTHS protects better. As we should all agree the lower HT/HS will have better MPG, these are facts. But then you put the car on the road and the variables supersede the controlled tests. Unless we go to extremes and instead of using a recommended 15/40 we use a 0/8. But that's not something i read in an SAE report. It's mostly common sense.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Completely agree. But to what end do these tests discern engine longevity between the two. I does not. Of course we should all agree that a higher HTHS protects better. As we should all agree the lower HT/HS will have better MPG, these are facts. But then you put the car on the road and the variables supersede the controlled tests.

The premise is that every study pretty much concludes that higher HTHS (say 3.0-.3 cP and above) gives more wear protection. That is all I need to know, regardless of all the other hair splitting and arguments for thinner oil is put towards the subject matter. Others can make their own conclusions.

Unless we go to extremes and instead of using a recommended 15/40 we use a 0/8. But that's not something i read in an SAE report. It's mostly common sense.

Go look for the thread where 0W5 was "experimentally" used in a turbocharged Navigator for a short amount of time. What would it do with a regular specified OCI or harder use then going to the grocery store.

 

[wemay]

The premise is that every study pretty much concludes that higher HTHS (say 3.0-.3 cP and above) gives more wear protection. That is all I need to know, regardless of all the other hair splitting and arguments for thinner oil is put towards the subject matter. Others can make their own conclusions.


Go look for the thread where 0W5 was used in a turbocharged Navigator.

Yes, i think commented in that thread. Lol

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Normally no.. no problems.
But all sorts of turbo cars would fail or wear prematurely with 5-20 dino instead of a heavier full synth.


Exactly. My wife's Accent specs 5W20, 5W30 or 10W30. We use 5W20 with no issues.

My Mini specs BMW LL01 approved 0W30, 5W30 or 0W40. I would never put 5W20 in the Mini.

My Silverado V8 specs 0w20

 

[TiGeo]

My 2 cents.....Our fleet at work consists of Prius and Corollas. Their OCI is 10k using 0W20 synthetic. We have 5 cars that are over 500k miles that are driven daily and one Prius that is over 600k miles that is used locally.

Not permitted here.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yes, why did you have to dig this old thing out of the trash?

And a $35 spectrographic analysis won’t tell you what you’re asking. I believe that’s been discussed several times. With you in particular.

But I guess if you’re desperate for another thick vs. thin debate then this is what you’ve got.

Whatever happened to the forum feature that auto-locked threads over 2 years old? The mercy-kill feature…

 

[Plumb Bob]

Whatever happened to the forum feature that auto-locked threads over 2 years old? The mercy-kill feature…

Amen

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

It's good there are 1000 threads about thick vs thin, because someone can spend half their life reading them and eventually come to their own conclusion ... maybe, lol.

The thing few to none of these ppl have considered is that at OPERATING TEMPS, which are always variable due to ambient and operational conditions, the thick oil is many times just as thin as the thin oil…

 

[ZeeOSix]

The thing few to none of these ppl have considered is that at OPERATING TEMPS, which are always variable due to ambient and operational conditions, the thick oil is many times just as thin as the thin oil…

Maybe mostly in a track use. Manufacturers of high performance cars that might see track time typically spec a thicker oil, or say to use a thicker oil if the car is taken to the track. Or heavy towing with a vehicle that doesn't have an adequate oil cooler. Having oil at 250-275, maybe even 300 deg F that's already on the thin side doesn't help. A thicker oil at those temperatures won't be as thin and therefore give more engine protection at elevated temperatures.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My Silverado V8 specs 0w20

Cool

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Maybe mostly in a track use. Manufacturers of high performance cars that might see track time typically spec a thicker oil of say to use a thicker oil if the car is taken to the track.

Thanks for confirming my point

Many of these people shying away from using a heavier grade (especially when carrying a 0wXX rating) don’t understand that the thicker oil will run “slightly” hotter than the thinner oil for thermodynamics reasons, and hence be “less thick” than they expected. That was my main point.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thanks for confirming my point

Many of these people shying away from using a heavier grade (especially when carrying a 0wXX rating) don’t understand that the thicker oil will run “slightly” hotter than the thinner oil for thermodynamics reasons, and hence be “less thick” than they expected. That was my main point.

A thicker oil might only run a few degrees higher, but not enough to take away the actual advantage of the thicker oil. If that was the case, no high performance car meant for hard use or track use would come with thicker oil, nor would the manufacture recommend a thicker oil for track use. Nor would air cooled engines that run hotter would recommend a thicker oil. Thicker oil still provides more protection even though it might run a few degrees hotter than a thinner oil, because it's still has a higher viscosity at operating temperature.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

A thicker oil might only run a few degrees higher, but not enough to take away the actual advantage of the thicker oil. If that was the case, no high performance car meant for hard use or track use would come with thicker oil, nor would the manufacture recommend a thicker for track use. Or no air cooled engines that run hotter would recommend a thicker oil.

Absolutely agree and that’s not what I was saying… the “thicker” oil will still have a higher HT/HS even at the slightly elevated temps. But, the viscosity may be closer than expected between the “thick” and “thin” as far as cSts go, and that’s where the magic of the “thick” oil comes into play as you mention.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Absolutely agree and that’s not what I was saying… the “thicker” oil will still have a higher HT/HS even at the slightly elevated temps. But, the viscosity may be closer than expected between the “thick” and “thin” as far as cSts go, and that’s where the magic of the “thick” oil comes into play as you mention.

I was going off your statement of:
"Many of these people shying away from using a heavier grade (especially when carrying a 0wXX rating) don’t understand that the thicker oil will run “slightly” hotter than the thinner oil for thermodynamics reasons, and hence be “less thick” than they expected. That was my main point."

Which to me is saying that with all factors held constant, that a thicker oil will run hotter (because it's thicker), and that will just bring the viscosity down closer in viscosity to what the thinner oil would run at. But as I mentioned before, with all factors held constant, the thicker oil will only run a few degrees hotter because of the added shear and "thermodynamic reasons" ... so the decrease in viscosity from the temp rise just due the viscosity is pretty small. But it won't be enough to negate the advantage of the thicker oil because the MOFT will still be higher than using a thinner oil under the same conditions. Thicker oil recommended for track use wouldn't exist of the thicker oil ran so much hotter that it resulted in the same HTHS viscosity.