Electric Cars Pass the Tipping Point to Mass Adoption in 31 Countries

Hybrids are the answer. They just make the most sense.
I don't know if they're the answer, but they certainly are one answer.
I've got 101K on mine now and have found it to be very economical in daily use and entirely satisfactory as a car.
Imagine the fuel savings were hybrids to become the default offering for all light vehicles, including light trucks.
 
$60k is a lot. How much is the gas version?
Just to follow up on this because I tried to talk with the Ford dealer today and got nowhere. I thought there would be a bit of wiggle room on price from a last year leftover. I guess I was wrong. Half of that "discount" is the tax credit, so they're really only knocking $7,500 off of a leftover vehicle. I also did my due diligence to research the vehicle and I'm thinking I dodged the usual Ford bullet. I'm really not sure why I got the idea to revisit this with my history with the company.
 
Just to follow up on this because I tried to talk with the Ford dealer today and got nowhere. I thought there would be a bit of wiggle room on price from a last year leftover. I guess I was wrong. Half of that "discount" is the tax credit, so they're really only knocking $7,500 off of a leftover vehicle. I also did my due diligence to research the vehicle and I'm thinking I dodged the usual Ford bullet. I'm really not sure why I got the idea to revisit this with my history with the company.
Good move on your part, let it rot in their lot, or someone else can have it.
 
Good move on your part, let it rot in their lot, or someone else can have it.
I figure at this point I got in their ear. If they get desperate to move it I bet I hear something from them. They have two, this grey one and a dark blue. I'd prefer the grey, but if they sell one I bet they still have trouble moving the other.
 
It looks like our dogs were very similar. Our guy passed last year in May - he was a 17 year old Schnoodle (almost 18). Similarly, he couldn't see much after 12 or so, though it was cataracts in our case. If I knew how long he would live I'd have had them done, though he still did well without good vision. He was a great dog - had quite a few health issues in the last year or two but he was still enthusiastic about life until the last week or so. We knew it was time.....

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WOW !!!! Showed my wife your post too. The photo of your dog in your car looks very similar to ours.
You are so RIGHT, "enthusiastic about life" some might wonder how a dog with no eyes and now failing hearing can still be so enthusiastic about living. Well, like you, our dog is. Sure he sleeps a lot now, sometimes I guide him in the house if he gets lost, not often though and he still plays like a crazy puppy, then goes to sleep *LOL*
Schnoodles are the most amazing breed. Scary smart. I cant imagine him being gone which is going to happen sometime this year. I actually plan on preserving his ashes. My wife knows if I go before her I want my ashes spread with his.
(I know all dogs are great, this is just our experience with this one) Great photos BTW
 
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And sometimes it doesn't work out too well:
https://mishtalk.com/economics/the-norwegian-illusion-evs-are-not-more-energy-efficient/

Didn't really want to post this, but this seems like the proper thread.
Interesting take. There are some serious issues with their analysis.

For starters they applied total CO2 emissions per kwh generated by China towards the calculation of CO2 used to build EV batteries. You can't do that because China has a diverse economy and all industries require different amounts of energy. For example, bitcoin farming is hugely energy intensive and there were, until recently, a bunch of them in China. In the defense of the authors they probably can't obtain more granular information out of China because the country has become so secretive so it's probably best that they never tried to make the comparison to begin with but then that would kill off half the article..

Secondly, Norwegians drive about 6.6k miles/yr whereas the US is around 13k miles/yr. The more miles you drive the more CO2/mile you save over the lifecycle of the vehicle.
 
Interesting take. There are some serious issues with their analysis.

For starters they applied total CO2 emissions per kwh generated by China towards the calculation of CO2 used to build EV batteries. You can't do that because China has a diverse economy and all industries require different amounts of energy. For example, bitcoin farming is hugely energy intensive and there were, until recently, a bunch of them in China. In the defense of the authors they probably can't obtain more granular information out of China because the country has become so secretive so it's probably best that they never tried to make the comparison to begin with but then that would kill off half the article..

Secondly, Norwegians drive about 6.6k miles/yr whereas the US is around 13k miles/yr. The more miles you drive the more CO2/mile you save over the lifecycle of the vehicle.
Many factories in China are mine to mouth coal, so using grid-average emissions may in fact underestimate the emissions intensity.
 
Many factories in China are mine to mouth coal, so using grid-average emissions may in fact underestimate the emissions intensity.
One commenter suggest the authors numbers are off by a factor of 100. In any case blow is a link to a heady study from Argonne National Labs in cradle-to-grave



China CO2 emissions is not even close to the articles claim of 600gm/kWh


 
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I don't know if that's true. Look at the new Tundra, the hybrid only gets 20mpg. That's actually a bit worse than some gas F150 variants.
To be honest the comparisons have to be sorted through. Average combined mpg, 4 wheel drive, engine size etc. It appears the 2.7 Ford Turbo got the same combined but it’s a smaller engine and so it did better on highway mpg. But yes, the Ford 2.7 Turbo out did the Toyota Turbo hybrid in both gas mileage and acceleration. Toyota has some homework to do.

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To be honest the comparisons have to be sorted through. Average combined mpg, 4 wheel drive, engine size etc. It appears the 2.7 Ford Turbo got the same combined but it’s a smaller engine and so it did better on highway mpg. But yes, the Ford 2.7 Turbo out did the Toyota Turbo hybrid in both gas mileage and acceleration. Toyota has some homework to do.

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Good post, Americans spend for convenance and comfort. These are pickup trucks averaged in with econobox 3 cylinder cars. What is the point for a consumer other to understand it cost more to drive a larger more powerful car or truck? I guess just to educate the uneducated public?
Dont misread my post, it is educational

It cost me about $4 to drive my 3 row SUV with 5,100Lb tow rating 25 miles which seems like a downright bargain to me

Hard to understand the Toyota Ford comparisons being they are different vehicles... also longitivtiy I suspect the Toyota will deliver far more miles on its engine trouble free.
 
Good post, Americans spend for convenance and comfort. These are pickup trucks averaged in with econobox 3 cylinder cars. What is the point for a consumer other to understand it cost more to drive a larger more powerful car or truck? I guess just to educate the uneducated public?
Dont misread my post, it is educational

It cost me about $4 to drive my 3 row SUV with 5,100Lb tow rating 25 miles which seems like a downright bargain to me

Hard to understand the Toyota Ford comparisons being they are different vehicles... also longitivtiy I suspect the Toyota will deliver far more miles on its engine trouble free.
The average fuel cost across the whole market isn't exactly relevant for this comparison for sure. I'm willing to bet some laziness in website design got us here. Towing capacity would be a better choice between the trucks, or even just comparing fuel costs between similar vehicles.

The Toyota may do it more reliably. It's also towing around an extra electric motor and battery to only match the fuel economy. I think I would still take my chances with the less complicated setup here.
 
One commenter suggest the authors numbers are off by a factor of 100. In any case blow is a link to a heady study from Argonne National Labs in cradle-to-grave



China CO2 emissions is not even close to the articles claim of 600gm/kWh


None of those links account for coal cogen, which is huge in China. So, without knowing where the components are coming from, and how that facility is powered, it's impossible to derive an accurate emissions figure. If it's powered by hydro, then the claimed figure is high, if it's powered by coal, then the figure is low.

Seaver Wang does detailed deep dives into how various facilities are powered in China on twitter, including satellite pictures. While his focus has primarily been solar products, the situation is the same for other items like batteries.
 
EVs will have a place in America but they will be far more prevalent overseas.
It's just fact, the vast majority of Americans do not want the current offering and technology of today's EVs for a primary car. Its to inconvenient for most and sales numbers prove it in the USA.
"It's just fact" that these statements are your opinion. We've been through this stuff before on this site. There are reasonable objections to owning EVs, if you live in a rural area or an apartment complex. You say the majority of people don't want them but provide no supporting data. Inconvenienice is a statement of opinion as well.

My opinion is that the biggest barrier to further adoption is that these vehicles remain too expensive, especially with the higher interest rates prevalent in the US and other countries at the moment.
 
Exactly. Cheesy states, how about NY? Funny thing is the way I'm wired the harder they push an agenda like Electrify America, or eliminate ICE by 2032, etc. the more I hope it fails. Electric pizza ovens, that's in the NYC mayor's crosshairs LOL! Don't get me started on the Governor. Set a realistic obtainable goal, and let it fail or succeed on its own merit.
So normal would be ok with you if everyone else wasn't doing it? Weird take, bro.
 
So normal would be ok with you if everyone else wasn't doing it? Weird take, bro.
Weird take, that's your opinion. Normal, I have no idea what you mean by normal? I'm not a fan of how the Electrify America agenda is being carried out, that's all. Set realistic goals is my point. Care to eat pizza cooked in an electric oven because certain state officials feel they are going to save the world by targeting pizza ovens.
 
I was specifically referring to this part "Funny thing is the way I'm wired the harder they push an agenda....the more I hope it fails"
 
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