E10 experiences? Treatment additives.

[TurboFiat124]

Can anyone say for sure from their experience if these ethanol treatments actually work? What exactly do they do? Do they actually protect the engine from the harmful effects of alcohol or just prevent water/alcohol/gasoline from separating? And how as little as 1 ounce can treat 10 gallons? And 1 ounce of another brand like “Ethanol Medic” can treat 16 gallons.

So far I cannot say none of my cars or small engines have suffered any “damages” from running E10. Such as the pump diaphragms in small 2 cycle engines or carburetors. Or rotted fuel lines.

I’ve been using Stab-il’s marine ethanol treatment and to some extent Ethanol Medic and Starbright in my lawn equipment and most of my cars. These cars are my collector cars that can sit for months without being driven. So I typically add something to it just to be on the safe side.

I have not been using anything in my ’03 Subaru which is driven more often but maybe I should. Not that I don’t care about it, just figured the real problem occurs when the car is not driven regularly.

Something happened about a year ago and it crops up every now and then and wonder if it has anything to do with E10.

One day my Subaru started to buck around 3K rpms every now and then. It doesn’t really seem like a misfire but more like a sudden loose of power yet the check engine light never comes on. The condition would crop up if the car sat for more than 2 weeks and below half a tank of gas. Once the engine runs for about 15 minutes (which has nothing to do with reaching operating temperature) the engine would smooth out. More like the fuel getting agitated by the excess fuel coming off the regulator going back to the tank. The problem seemed to have went away for a while.

Then a month ago I decided to run the tank down as low as I could so I could start out with fresh fuel and add some ethanol treatment. So I get down to about 3 gallons when the car starts running poorly. So I decided to just go ahead and fill it up. Initially the car still ran like poorly but ever since it has run fine. This time I added some ethanol treatment to it.

It’s my understanding that alcohol mixes well with gasoline however if any moisture comes in contact with the two, water will attract itself to the alcohol because it likes it better (Which is known as a azeotrope ) then sinks of the bottom of the fuel tank.

This same method is used in the chemical industry. If you want to separate acetic acid and water using less steam, introduce some Isopropyl acetate to the mix. The acetic acid and IPA mix and the water falls out and sinks to the bottom of the column then the IPA and acid go out the top and is pumped to a distillation column which can be separated buy distilling at a lower boiling point.

What I am wondering is an I experiencing the effects of this? So if the car sits for 2 weeks, the alcohol/water mixture sinks to the bottom and causes the engine to run poorly at first then as the car is run, all three mixes together and the engine smooths out? But looks like if that were the case the car would not even start.

 

[rfeir]

All new cars can tolerate up to 10% ethanol. Most new small gasoline 4 stroke motors can tolerated up to 10% ethanol. But older cars and many small motors have had issues including hose and gasket incompatibility and some metal corrosion issues.

If you use gasoline in a small motor I recommend that you add a fuel stabilizer to the container before filling up the motor, (those labeled for marine use are first on my list). This will help retain the octane rating of the fuel, and help reduce some of the metal corrosion issues. Any replacement carb should come with compatible gaskets, etc. Thank the corn lobby for our current situation.

 

[TurboFiat124]

When you say "newer" what is the cutoff point? Mine Subaru is a 2003 model. The fuel cap on my Husqvarna says no greater than E10.

 

[hatt]

What city you in? Several places in E.Tn sell E0. And for just a little more than E10.

 

[TurboFiat124]

Kingsport, population 45,000 but the whole Tri-Cities metropolitan area is about 200,000. There are a couple of gas stations that sell pure gas but let's just say they are "inconvenient".

One is on the other side of town and last time I filled up it literally took 10 minutes to pump 5 gallons of gas and was so slow the pump wouldn't even kick off when the tank was full. Either the owner cut the flow rate back to the minimum or the pump has a filter that was clogged.

The other guy operates one of those old timey fuel service gas stations you would see on Andy Griffin. Open between the hours of 8 to 5 Monday through Friday and if I recall he still uses an old carbon copy machine for credit cards!

Both of these stations sell pure gas for as much or more than diesel fuel. Higher than E10 premium 93.

However there is a station across the state line in Virginia that sells pure gas for less than E10 in Tennessee! Taxes perhaps. It’s actually the same distance as the second station (about 5 miles). I just have no reason to go over there so it’s out of the way so I have to make a special trip. No offense to anyone living in Virginia.

I’m wondering, if alcohol is added to reduce pollution, then does the EPA limit the amount of stations in certain cities that can sell pure gas? And charge an extra fee for it?

Kingsport is an industrial town that puts out a lot of emissions. We are on the brink of having to have our cars sniff tested due to all the plants that generate CO2s and they have reduced the speed limits by 10 miles per hour on the interstates 81 and 26 in Sullivan county to compensate. They issue have “hjgh ozone days” where they ask you not to operate lawn mowers, burn brush, etc on those days. I don’t know how they calculate these ozone days. Maybe temperature, humidity, wind..

Before scrubbers were required around 1992, Kingsport was ranked as one of the top 5 cities in the country for air pollution. Right behind Pittsburgh.

 

[hatt]

Have you checked puregas.org? They list 6 in your town.

 

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: TurboFiat124
Can anyone say for sure from their experience if these ethanol treatments actually work? What exactly do they do? Do they actually protect the engine from the harmful effects of alcohol or just prevent water/alcohol/gasoline from separating? And how as little as 1 ounce can treat 10 gallons? And 1 ounce of another brand like “Ethanol Medic” can treat 16 gallons.

So far I cannot say none of my cars or small engines have suffered any “damages” from running E10. Such as the pump diaphragms in small 2 cycle engines or carburetors. Or rotted fuel lines.

I’ve been using Stab-il’s marine ethanol treatment and to some extent Ethanol Medic and Starbright in my lawn equipment and most of my cars. These cars are my collector cars that can sit for months without being driven. So I typically add something to it just to be on the safe side.

I have not been using anything in my ’03 Subaru which is driven more often but maybe I should. Not that I don’t care about it, just figured the real problem occurs when the car is not driven regularly.

Something happened about a year ago and it crops up every now and then and wonder if it has anything to do with E10.

One day my Subaru started to buck around 3K rpms every now and then. It doesn’t really seem like a misfire but more like a sudden loose of power yet the check engine light never comes on. The condition would crop up if the car sat for more than 2 weeks and below half a tank of gas. Once the engine runs for about 15 minutes (which has nothing to do with reaching operating temperature) the engine would smooth out. More like the fuel getting agitated by the excess fuel coming off the regulator going back to the tank. The problem seemed to have went away for a while.

Then a month ago I decided to run the tank down as low as I could so I could start out with fresh fuel and add some ethanol treatment. So I get down to about 3 gallons when the car starts running poorly. So I decided to just go ahead and fill it up. Initially the car still ran like poorly but ever since it has run fine. This time I added some ethanol treatment to it.

It’s my understanding that alcohol mixes well with gasoline however if any moisture comes in contact with the two, water will attract itself to the alcohol because it likes it better (Which is known as a azeotrope ) then sinks of the bottom of the fuel tank.

This same method is used in the chemical industry. If you want to separate acetic acid and water using less steam, introduce some Isopropyl acetate to the mix. The acetic acid and IPA mix and the water falls out and sinks to the bottom of the column then the IPA and acid go out the top and is pumped to a distillation column which can be separated buy distilling at a lower boiling point.

What I am wondering is an I experiencing the effects of this? So if the car sits for 2 weeks, the alcohol/water mixture sinks to the bottom and causes the engine to run poorly at first then as the car is run, all three mixes together and the engine smooths out? But looks like if that were the case the car would not even start.



Ethanol is a "SCAM" and it always will be a scam. It is far more damaging to the environment than regular gasoline ever was. It lowers MPG as everyone knows and makes the "insiders" rich beyond even their wildest dreams while we pay for it with every gallon.

That being said, we are stuck with it until enough people realize it is just a scam. Burning food for energy? Really? Are we serious here? That's not to mention all the chemicals that were deemed illegal for food production that are now "legal" under "ethaonol" production that STILL enter the water table because they aren't used for "Food Production".

Ethanol is bad for the economy, it's bad for the environment and it's bad for our wallets. Not to mention, it's bad for the global food supply. Automobiles aren't the leading cause of pollution anyway. They never have been. Especially in this day and age.

All it has ever done is make the insiders even richer than they were before. Deleting the EPA is the only way to get rid of it and every state can do just that with enough pressure from the citizenry.

Taking care of the environment is one thing. Raping the people is another.

 

[Stephen_G]

The reason ethanol is being used, MTBE many places don't want to deal with that, as it is a known ground water pollutant, the stuff has an affinity for water and dissolves easily in it. both ethanol and MTBE are oxygenates for fuel, Ethanol costs more, but doesn't have the potential for being a carcinogen that MTBE is.

New Jersey has 0 E0 stations, the EPA requires reformualted gas for the state, and we switched to E10 vs MTBE in the 2000s due to how bad MTBE can get. a leaking underground tank can contanimate drinking water for an entire town.