Dual remote oil filter/ Best filter to use??

[Zoomschwortz]

I will be installing a remote dual oil filter on my truck with a 22RE engine. The kit uses PH8 type filters.

Since the filters will now be vertical, unlike the stock horizontal setup, is anti drain back still important?

Since I will be running dual filters, am I correct in thinking that I will have half the restriction than I would if I used 1 filter?

With my focus on filtering the smallest particles, which filter would be the best for me to use in place of a PH8?

Thank you for your time.
Ken

 

[Lonnie]

Anytime you add parallel flow the oil will travel across the media a bit slower, which is good. The filter should do a better job. I would not worry about the ADV, what can you do about it anyhow except choose a filter with a better valve. If you are careful with locating your mounting you might consider longer filters, just mount them were it's easy to get at them and consider that anything below the mount will get oil spilled on it. There have been filter studies and many here have their own favorites. Amsoil may just be the best, but is also the most expensive, probably for good reason. The Mobil 1 is a good filter, just under the price of an Amsoil filter and below that are Wix, PureOne's, Mann and many others. After lurking around here for a while you are supposed to pick one, and with no evidense claim it's the best.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Thank you for the reply.

I have another thought and question.
It seems that changing filters before they are dirty is a waste of money and since I will be running 2 filters, it will be more of a waste. The problem is, knowing when the filters are dirty.

It seems to me that when the filters are dirty there will be a pressure drop on the output side of the filter. With the dual filter setup it will be easy to run a gauge on both the inlet and outlet side of the filter.

Does anyone see a problem in delaying a filter change until a pressure drop is noticed?

Thanks again.
Ken

 

[Laminar Lou]

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Thank you for the reply.

I have another thought and question.
It seems that changing filters before they are dirty is a waste of money and since I will be running 2 filters, it will be more of a waste. The problem is, knowing when the filters are dirty.

It seems to me that when the filters are dirty there will be a pressure drop on the output side of the filter. With the dual filter setup it will be easy to run a gauge on both the inlet and outlet side of the filter.

Does anyone see a problem in delaying a filter change until a pressure drop is noticed?

Thanks again.
Ken

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You are going to have a pressure drop anyway, and once the filter becomes loaded it will go into bypass so the pressure will go back up. As I understand it, many filters are in bypass when the oil is cold so you would have to pay attention to the oil temp as well. I like where you are going with this, but you might run into some practical road blocks.

 

[Tempest]

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Since I will be running dual filters, am I correct in thinking that I will have half the restriction than I would if I used 1 filter?

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Hoses to get the oil to the filter will be much more of a restriction than the filters.

I would think that you could simply run the filters for double the length of time that you normally would. It would matter if they are connected in parallel or in series though.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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You are going to have a pressure drop anyway, and once the filter becomes loaded it will go into bypass so the pressure will go back up. As I understand it, many filters are in bypass when the oil is cold so you would have to pay attention to the oil temp as well. I like where you are going with this, but you might run into some practical road blocks.

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I'm thinking that when the filters are new, I could record the outlet pressure when cold and hot and at 2 different inlet pressures such as 10 lbs and 40 lbs. By doing this, when I see a difference on the outlet side pressure, it will give me an idea when the the filters are getting dirty or when the bypass has kicked in giving me a chance to lighten up on the gas when the engine is cold.

I do have an oil temp gauge that I can install so I can monitor that as well.

Thank you for your input.
Ken

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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Since I will be running dual filters, am I correct in thinking that I will have half the restriction than I would if I used 1 filter?

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Hoses to get the oil to the filter will be much more of a restriction than the filters.

I would think that you could simply run the filters for double the length of time that you normally would. It would matter if they are connected in parallel or in series though.

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In an attempt to reduce restrictions, I won't be using any elbows, but you a right about the hoses causing restrictions.

I will be running the filters in parallel, otherwise I would be doubling the filter restriction instead off cutting it in half.

Thank you for your input.
Ken

 

[Pablo]

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Since the filters will now be vertical, unlike the stock horizontal setup, is anti drain back still important?

Since I will be running dual filters, am I correct in thinking that I will have half the restriction than I would if I used 1 filter?

With my focus on filtering the smallest particles, which filter would be the best for me to use in place of a PH8?

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ADBV probably will be irrelevant.
In theory, more surface area is better for more flow, but your pressure will be your pressure, regardless. The best feature will be increased oil volume.
I would use two EaO15's for best filtering and absolute longest life.

I had the same set up on a 1985 turbo (4). It worked flawlessly and allowed for nice extended OCI's on a turbo. I think all told I had an extra 1.5-2 qts of oil.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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Since the filters will now be vertical, unlike the stock horizontal setup, is anti drain back still important?

Since I will be running dual filters, am I correct in thinking that I will have half the restriction than I would if I used 1 filter?

With my focus on filtering the smallest particles, which filter would be the best for me to use in place of a PH8?

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ADBV probably will be irrelevant.
In theory, more surface area is better for more flow, but your pressure will be your pressure, regardless. The best feature will be increased oil volume.
I would use two EaO15's for best filtering and absolute longest life.

I had the same set up on a 1985 turbo (4). It worked flawlessly and allowed for nice extended OCI's on a turbo. I think all told I had an extra 1.5-2 qts of oil.

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I see that you live in Washington too, so you know what our weather and temps are like. Do you think I should run smaller filters in the winter when it is cold to aid in bringing the oil temp up faster?

What do you think about the oil pan heaters that keep the oil warm over night?

I live about 25 minutes from work and 200 yards from highway 7 and 55 mph speed limit. Probably not the best for cold engine wear.

Thanks
Ken

 

[Pablo]

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I see that you live in Washington too, so you know what our weather and temps are like. Do you think I should run smaller filters in the winter when it is cold to aid in bringing the oil temp up faster?

What do you think about the oil pan heaters that keep the oil warm over night?

I live about 25 minutes from work and 200 yards from highway 7 and 55 mph speed limit. Probably not the best for cold engine wear.

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First I would normally say it doesn't get that cold here! I live in Duvall. But Highway 7, are you closer to Spanaway or below Eatonville?

Unless you are at some elevation, pan heaters are not normally required. Your choice on the filter, I ran the big ones on my dually, and it seem to warm up fine. But again it's a turbo. If you think it will help, sure.

Personally I would just use a good flowing synthetic oil, oil filter with great flow and size within reason, allow the car to idle for a minute or two (or find a different route) before hitting the highway. OR maybe your car is not the perfect candidate for a remote filter set-up.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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I see that you live in Washington too, so you know what our weather and temps are like. Do you think I should run smaller filters in the winter when it is cold to aid in bringing the oil temp up faster?

What do you think about the oil pan heaters that keep the oil warm over night?

I live about 25 minutes from work and 200 yards from highway 7 and 55 mph speed limit. Probably not the best for cold engine wear.

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First I would normally say it doesn't get that cold here! I live in Duvall. But Highway 7, are you closer to Spanaway or below Eatonville?

Unless you are at some elevation, pan heaters are not normally required. Your choice on the filter, I ran the big ones on my dually, and it seem to warm up fine. But again it's a turbo. If you think it will help, sure.

Personally I would just use a good flowing synthetic oil, oil filter with great flow and size within reason, allow the car to idle for a minute or two (or find a different route) before hitting the highway. OR maybe your car is not the perfect candidate for a remote filter set-up.

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I am considered Eatonville. We don't get much snow but I have had to scrape ice of the windshield as early as the first week of September and as late as last month, but it rarely goes below the teens.

I will be running an electric fan that should aid engine warmup and I think I'll add an oil temp gauge to better judge how fast the oil warms up.

Thank you for your help.
Ken

 

[Gary Allan]

Ken, unless you've got one dirty engine, it will take you an eternity to see a pressure drop across you filters. If you want to get fancy, hit up ebay and get a differential pressure gauge. You'll never see it twitch for more than a few seconds. You may see 2PSID after 10k or so. I thought that mine was broken until a fellow member sent me a used 9k PureOne. My engine appears to keep the oil passages full ..so I never saw a twitch with a clean(er) filter.

Look here

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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Ken, unless you've got one dirty engine, it will take you an eternity to see a pressure drop across you filters. If you want to get fancy, hit up ebay and get a differential pressure gauge. You'll never see it twitch for more than a few seconds. You may see 2PSID after 10k or so. I thought that mine was broken until a fellow member sent me a used 9k PureOne. My engine appears to keep the oil passages full ..so I never saw a twitch with a clean(er) filter.

Look here

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Thank you for the information and link.

With the information you gave, I can't help but wonder if we really need to change our oil filters as often as we do.

Unless trapped particles can somehow make their way through the filter element over a longer period of time, I wouldn't think that we would need to change them until we start to see a drop in pressure.

I used to own a Deuce and a Half truck abd I know that comparing air filters and oil filters is like comparing apples and oranges, but, my Deuce had a gauge attached to the steering colume. This gauge was really nothing more than a vacume gauge mounted between the engine and air filter, so when the air filter got dirty, it created more vacume letting you know it was time to change or clean the filter.

Do we really need to change our oil filters if they aren't even dirty enough to cause any more restriction than they were when they were new?

Thanks again for the information.
Ken

 

[Gary Allan]

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I can't help but wonder if we really need to change our oil filters as often as we do.

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Well, we usually do change them out sooner than we need to ..but loading is just one factor in filter degradation. Short trip types may or may not be challenging the holding capacity depending on their OCI ..but moisture may be a factor in the filter's lifespan.

The dirty oil that we leave in there isn't nearly as dirty as it used to be when the "Pay me now ..or pay me later" commercials came out. YMMV

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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Well, we usually do change them out sooner than we need to ..but loading is just one factor in filter degradation. Short trip types may or may not be challenging the holding capacity depending on their OCI ..but moisture may be a factor in the filter's lifespan.

The dirty oil that we leave in there isn't nearly as dirty as it used to be when the "Pay me now ..or pay me later" commercials came out. YMMV

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I could see how moisture could degrade the cardboard type filters, but, would it have an effect on the glass or synthetic medias?

Another thought: since you rarely see any difference on your gauge, how can we tell if the bypass ever gets kicked in or worse yet, how can we tell that it isn't always kicked in?

Thanks again.
Ken

 

[Gary Allan]

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I could see how moisture could degrade the cardboard type filters, but, would it have an effect on the glass or synthetic medias?

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This is a PureOne. No visible emulsification could be seen via the oil filler. Granted this isn't synthetic media ..but

I think it's the interaction of oil and moisture since I think that both coolant and oil medias aren't all that much different (an assumption).

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Another thought: since you rarely see any difference on your gauge, how can we tell if the bypass ever gets kicked in or worse yet, how can we tell that it isn't always kicked in?

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Seeing it twitch with used filters. You've got to have some basic faith in the mechanisms employed ..especially when you're observing multiple filters over many miles. The bypass valve's default position is to be tensioned shut. You could have a hole in your media that's never going to let it open. That is, there are all kinds of "defective" conditions that would take the bypass ..and the entire filter, out of the loop.

If you have a functional filter your bypass will rarely see service. Virtually never due to loading. You can see a blip (maybe) at startup until the passages get enveloped ..or when your oil pump is in relief ..and maybe if you're flat shifting @ 7000-8000 and are transitioning ..where the pump output and engine flow may be mismatched due to the inability to transition from one flow to another in such a rapid manner.

Here's how I know that I never saw the bypass valve threshold being reached.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

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I could see how moisture could degrade the cardboard type filters, but, would it have an effect on the glass or synthetic medias?

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This is a PureOne. No visible emulsification could be seen via the oil filler. Granted this isn't synthetic media ..but

I think it's the interaction of oil and moisture since I think that both coolant and oil medias aren't all that much different (an assumption).

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Another thought: since you rarely see any difference on your gauge, how can we tell if the bypass ever gets kicked in or worse yet, how can we tell that it isn't always kicked in?

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Seeing it twitch with used filters. You've got to have some basic faith in the mechanisms employed ..especially when you're observing multiple filters over many miles. The bypass valve's default position is to be tensioned shut. You could have a hole in your media that's never going to let it open. That is, there are all kinds of "defective" conditions that would take the bypass ..and the entire filter, out of the loop.

If you have a functional filter your bypass will rarely see service. Virtually never due to loading. You can see a blip (maybe) at startup until the passages get enveloped ..or when your oil pump is in relief ..and maybe if you're flat shifting @ 7000-8000 and are transitioning ..where the pump output and engine flow may be mismatched due to the inability to transition from one flow to another in such a rapid manner.

Here's how I know that I never saw the bypass valve threshold being reached.

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Thanks Gary.
I notice that the lower gauge reads about 4 lbs less than the upper gauge. I take it that the upper is the inlet and lower is the outlet.

Is this with new filters or with the Pureone that is pictured?

Thanks again.
Ken

 

[Gary Allan]

I believe that this filter was a smaller PureOne.

By the looks of the can's relationship to the gasket (which you can see)..I'd say that this is a PH3614 sized PureOne. The teacup version.

The water soaked filter was not the one used during that test. You're probably seeing the effects of the angle more than the true differential. It typically ran around 2.X psi difference. If you actually managed to get the oil pump into relief, both gauges would swing up in unison, and then the downstream gauge would stop (let's say @ 73 psi) and the engine side gauge would continue on to 82 psi. As the oil became more fluid ..the engine side gauge would slowly climb to (nearly) meet the engine side gauge. I don't recall the mileage that I had on this filter at this time.

Here's a shot with a temp gauge that shows the oil temp is around 180F. You still get the angle effect ..but you're still looking at around 2.x psi

I then went to a differential gauge. I ran it with a new teacup (PH3614 size) PureOne ..and got maybe the slightest of twitches at startup ..maybe. I had to ask myself if I merely "wanted to believe" that I saw something.

Then I put on a used filter (9k from a fellow member -Ugly3) and, in subfreezing whether ..with a blend of 20w-50 and 15w40 FINALLY got something to report.

Sorry for the wash out, but it was a challenge in editing. You're looking at about 9 PSID at startup. Note the gauge to the left reads LO ..it doesn't start reading until 70F.

Now look what we see @ 150 oil temp

I ASSURE you..it will take an ETERNITY to saturate the filters with a dual filter setup in a modern engine.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Gary,
Thank you for the information and pictures.
If I have trouble getting my oil temperature to go up in the winter, I may remove a filter and plug it with an adapter like you did in the picture.

Thanks again
Ken

 

[Gary Allan]

Zoomschwortz, you can add a heat exchanger if you're having trouble getting oil temp up. Any Ford pre-95 sandwich heat exchanger should work. It only requires a coolant bypass circuit to operate. Great little things.

They come in all shapes and sizes ..and are available at any DC dealer parts counter if you don't like used or NOS.

They're getting scarce on ebay ..the junkyards have pretty much been picked clean. $40 delivered is a good price ..but, again, they're getting rare. I have a decent collection of them

Here's one