You're trying to make it sound way more widespread than it actually is, but then again that's par for the course with this site.
drove a Tesla Model 3 AWD Dual Motor
- Thread starter MrPlow
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I never gave an exact percentage. All I’m saying is that the failure rate is far from nonexistent.
I'm not sure those are statistically meaningful.
Since 2020, Tesla battery failure rate is virtually non-existant.
From the EPA.
From INSIDE EVs.
I would be interested in studies showing otherwise. I haven't seen any.
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It's about as close to nonexistent as you can get. That's literally why the 8 year 120k mile warranty exists. If you managed 120k miles in less than 8 years then it would be out of warranty. Any less than that and you'd be covered 100%.
If this was common Tesla would be losing their backsides in battery replacements.
OVERKILL
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Right, but I think his point is the OP talked about getting 8-10 years out of the battery, which is already 7 years old with 100k on it, so just about out of that 8/120k you mention, and will be well outside that by the time he nears the end of the period he's talking about.
He isn't talking infant mortality of packs here, replaced under warranty, which the links that @JeffKeryk has shared focus on, but rather the potential failure or significant degradation of the pack well outside that period.
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My recollection is that NCA is very sensitive to temperature and demonstrates higher degradation during initial usage, then the curve flattens over time. Here's an article with some additional data points. I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with the chemistry, it's just a function of matching the expectations and use case. If the owner is using the vehicle primarily for daily commuting with intermittent long trips that require the full capacity, then it's probably ok. if it's going to be a road trip vehicle, then fully cycling the pack may hasten degradation. Normal degradation is a separate issue from outright pack failure. Even degraded packs are useable if the owner's routine is compatible.
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I'm interested to see how this works for the OP, we can have our own "sample of one" of a considerably aged pack
+1 That could be why a lot of dealerships won't take EVs on trade, and the ones that do make low ball offers..
There are many reasons. Poor resale value is one. Most of it is not having the resources or knowledge of dealing with them. As far as battery failures or degradation that's likely more of a fear than reality which definitely falls into the lack of knowledge category. The Ford dealer here did the opposite. They've installed chargers in front of the building and actually have some used EVs on the lot. They've obviously made it a point to deal with EVs. I don't think that's common. The Dodge dealer didn't bother, but aside from the Charger, I don't think they've had any other full EV vehicles for sale. It's more of an edge case for them than a Ford dealer.
Oh please. Don't get too uppity.
I'm not sure the articles I posted were solely about warranty failures.
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But it really is that fast. Low 3s to 60 beats many exotics, especially since they aren't using launch mode from a light. There a very few ICE vehicles that can beat an fast EV off the line without a high RPM launch. Obviously high speed is a different story, but most of us never see those speeds on public roadways.
For giggles, here's an Ioniq N v. Aventador.
You can poo poo it all you want but it's going to take a lot of power and traction to beat a 10 second EV like the Model 3 Performance from a stop light. I couldn't beat it in my Model Y Performance.
Then again no one here is that fast and while I usually just ignore idiots at lights, I've never lost when it happens. Every once in awhile someone acting like a fool needs humbled. Sometimes it's just good fun with other people into cars. One guy actually stopped to talk cars. It was an Infiniti G37 with a twin turbo kit. That was cool. He was RWD so instantly spun even on a roll. A 911 Carrera S gave me a thumbs up afterwords. It was fun and there wasn't other traffic around or I wouldn't have even went for it. That Porsche was beautiful. Black with gold BBSs with a polished lip.
OVERKILL
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That seemed to be the primary focus (they mention warranty or goodwill replacements). It only goes back to 2012; 14 years. The OP is talking 15-17 years with his vehicle, which is outside even the oldest examples in that table. The next 10 years will be instructive on how these older pack chemistries actually behave over that sort of timeframe, which I think a lot of people are interested in seeing.
Agreed, it could very well be a regional thing.
I wouldn't think it would be a popular thing in my town, but for the three dealerships in town Ford seems to have the market cornered for used EVs. Madison? Sure. They have chargers all over the place. I live in a small town surrounded by rural areas and the nearest level 3 charger to my home is 25 miles away.
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I guaranty you I could figure out a way to drive that Tesla 35mph in a 45 zone.
My point was battery reliability after about 2020 got much better. I believe the articles I posted show that. Early failures were noted but I think that makes my point.
Again, I would be interested in studies that show otherwise; I've searched but struggle to find proper statistical results either way.
If there were substantial problems with batteries (I am more familiar and interested in Tesla products), I would expect to hear more about failure. But we don't; the posts are anecdotal. As you say, time will tell.
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Apologies if you took my post as uppity. Just pokin' fun...
But one thing is for sure; to get even close M3P performance you have to come up with serious scratch and it will likely be a lousy daily.
OVERKILL
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Right, but we are only talking about vehicles 6 years old and newer at that point, so we aren't going to see the age-driven effects yet was all I was driving at and I think what @The Critic was opining on.
This (age) is of course a moving target. "We won't know until we get there" if that makes sense?