Driving fast does mean driving dangerous.

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bkbenjy

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Driving fast does not kill people. Less people die in Germany where there is no speed limit than in The US where there is a speed limit. (It is a known thing that people drive really fast in Germany.)

In Germany there is no speed limit on the highway only an advisory limit of 80MPH, which is not enforced. In the US the limit ranges from 60-80MPH

Here's some statistics.

The population of The USA in 2008 was 307,000,000. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 34,017. 307Million/34,017 = 9,024.
1 in every 9,024 people died of a fatal crash in The USA in 2008.

The population of Germany in 2008 was 82,110,097. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 4,477. 82,110,097/4,477 = 18,340. 1 in every 18,340 people died in a fatal accident in Germany.

2008 USA fatal fatality's 1/9024
2008 Germany fatality's 1/18,340

As you can see The USA has more than double the fatality's of Germany.

Sources:
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
http://www.bast.de/cln_015/nn_76784/EN/e-Statistik/e-Unfalldaten/e-unfalldaten-node.html?__nnn=true
 
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Speed is only one factor in determining the cause of accidents. We also have a very large number of stupid people, especially concentrated in the greater Houston area, that tend to cause far more car crashes than any other place I've lived in this country. YMMV.


:)
 
Cars and technology goes faster....the human mind and reaction time stays the same.

Common sense: speed kills unless it's in a controlled environment like the Autobahn. Keep in mind that we Americans drive more and have wayy more roads than Germany.

Who cares about Germany; we have laws here to help protect the people. OBEY THE LAW.

I'm tired of people who complain about a simple law and compare other countries about it.
 
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Originally Posted By: bkbenjy
Driving fast does not kill people. Less people die in Germany where there is no speed limit than in The US where there is a speed limit. (It is a known thing that people drive really fast in Germany.)

In Germany there is no speed limit on the highway only an advisory limit of 80MPH, which is not enforced. In the US the limit ranges from 60-80MPH

Here's some statistics.

The population of The USA in 2008 was 307,000,000. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 34,017. 307Million/34,017 = 9,024.
1 in every 9,024 people died of a fatal crash in The USA in 2008.

The population of Germany in 2008 was 82,110,097. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 4,477. 82,110,097/4,477 = 18,340. 1 in every 18,340 people died in a fatal accident in Germany.

2008 USA fatal fatality's 1/9024
2008 Germany fatality's 1/18,340

As you can see The USA has more than double the fatality's of Germany.

Sources:
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
http://www.bast.de/cln_015/nn_76784/EN/e-Statistik/e-Unfalldaten/e-unfalldaten-node.html?__nnn=true



And how much bigger is the US population?

And how much easier is it to get a license in the US?
 
While that would seem to be a fair comparison, I think a little more investigation is in order before you draw the conclusions you seek to support.

IIRC, drivers licenses in Germany cost quite a bit more than here, seems like it was in the thousands of dollars. That would restrict drivers to a portion of the population that is not the same as here in the US.

And again, IIRC, the penalty for impaired/drunk driving is license revocation on the first offense. And I'm thinking that was for LIFE.

So there is a barrier to entry and severe repercussions for poor judgment. I think that represents a different population than here in the US.

Additionally, European urban transit systems are far more integrated and widely used than here. In smaller villages I suspect many people have little need for a vehicle aside from a bicycle. It would also bear mentioning that fuel costs 2 to 4 times what ours does - all the more influence for joe average to NOT have a car.

So while I agree the accident fatality rate is far lower for them, I believe the comparison is invalid based on the population sample.
 
Originally Posted By: Popinski
Cars and technology goes faster....the human mind and reaction time stays the same.

Common sense: speed kills unless it's in a controlled environment like the Autobahn. Keep in mind that we Americans drive more and have wayy more roads than Germany.

Who cares about Germany; we have laws here to help protect the people. OBEY THE LAW.

I'm tired of people who complain about a simple law and compare other countries about it.


This.
 
Originally Posted By: bkbenjy


Here's some statistics.

The population of The USA in 2008 was 307,000,000. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 34,017. 307Million/34,017 = 9,024.
1 in every 9,024 people died of a fatal crash in The USA in 2008.

The population of Germany in 2008 was 82,110,097. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 4,477. 82,110,097/4,477 = 18,340. 1 in every 18,340 people died in a fatal accident in Germany.

2008 USA fatal fatality's 1/9024
2008 Germany fatality's 1/18,340

As you can see The USA has more than double the fatality's of Germany.





These are statistics, but not meaningful statistics. A fairer comparison is fatalities per 100 million miles, and if you look those up , you will find the rates between US Interstates and the autobahn are similar, but, depending on the year, tend to be higher in Germany.
Seat belt use is 95% in Germany and 50% in USA. If 45% more Americans buckled up, the USA fatality rate would most likely drop considerably.
 
Additionally, the road its self is different. IIRC the made-for-speed Autobahn is about 3 to 4 feet thick (Smooth) and never exceeds 3-4% grade. So trucks would not be slowing nearly as much as here, and would cause far less of a traffic issue.
 
Originally Posted By: bkbenjy
Driving fast does not kill people. Less people die in Germany where there is no speed limit than in The US where there is a speed limit. (It is a known thing that people drive really fast in Germany.)

In Germany there is no speed limit on the highway only an advisory limit of 80MPH, which is not enforced. In the US the limit ranges from 60-80MPH

Here's some statistics.

The population of The USA in 2008 was 307,000,000. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 34,017. 307Million/34,017 = 9,024.
1 in every 9,024 people died of a fatal crash in The USA in 2008.

The population of Germany in 2008 was 82,110,097. Fatal car crashes in 2008 were 4,477. 82,110,097/4,477 = 18,340. 1 in every 18,340 people died in a fatal accident in Germany.

2008 USA fatal fatality's 1/9024
2008 Germany fatality's 1/18,340

As you can see The USA has more than double the fatality's of Germany.

Sources:
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
http://www.bast.de/cln_015/nn_76784/EN/e-Statistik/e-Unfalldaten/e-unfalldaten-node.html?__nnn=true


1. German drivers are MUCH better trained, and their driving tests are MUCH tougher.

2. I agree with Seguino's point that fatalities per million vehicle miles is a better point of comparison.


However, I agree with the premise that speed does not kill. It only exacerbates other mistakes. Speed just happens to be the most enforceable thing, which is why it's what highway patrols tend to pick on. It's also the easiest thing to understand, which is why everyone is made to fear it.
 
As Solo says, speed is just one factor in accidents.

Not all speeders are "agressive drivers" who tailgate, cut people off, change lanes suddenly, run red lights, etc. I've met some fast drivers who are wonderfully safe and aware.

Nobody ever talks about "passive-agressive drivers" who refuse to keep right for faster traffic, block a long line of cars for miles, and ignore yield signs. Why are so many agressive drivers tailgating and changing lanes? They're just trying to get around stubborn drivers who won't move right.

One major US problem is distractions like cell phones, texting, navigation, radio, eating, reading, shaving, make-up, etc.

Others problems: driving too slow, poor vehicle maintenance (tires, brakes, steering, wipers, etc), drunk driving, drugs, fatigue, insects inside vehicle, rubbernecking, hazardous road conditions, racing on public streets (not a closed course), missing or careless looks for other vehicles, inexperienced or untrained drivers, medical problems, old age, other passengers and children, lack of respect for law, loss of courtesy, poorly engineered roads and signs, potholes, animals, stupid pedestrians and cyclists, and unsecured trash/loads on the road.
 
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Originally Posted By: robshelton
Additionally, the road its self is different. IIRC the made-for-speed Autobahn is about 3 to 4 feet thick (Smooth) and never exceeds 3-4% grade. So trucks would not be slowing nearly as much as here, and would cause far less of a traffic issue.


Trucks on German autobahns generally move slower than trucks on US interstates. The truck speed limit is lower and they are underpowered by American standards. That's made up for by German truck drivers staying in their lane much more than American truck drivers.
 
Better training also plays a large role. Like somebody said, a German license needs much more training than an American license.
 
I lived in Germany for over 4 1/2 years. Noticed that unlike here in this country that cars there come with signal lights unlike many of the new ones here in America. They seem to stop better @ red lights, stop signs, etc.

Expensive and difficult to get a license. Requires hands on training. Insurance, fuel, taxes, very high.

Good public transportation and as mentioned above, many even though they can afford it have no desire to get a car.
 
fatalities expressed as a function of people per mile driven have steadily declined here for a long time. You can play with the numbers a dozen different ways to make them look different.

The way I see people driving it would seem we are lucky there aren't a lot more accidents!

But it is actually great to complain about the law, and it's a reflection of democracy that we can!
 
I'm not sure if the calculations really mean much. Based on my experience working in Germany, there are many more 'car-less' families and those with cars, typically log a lot less mileage over the course of a year. Two car families are also significantly rarer and the idea of a two hour commute would probably seem ridiculous to a lot of Germans.

Instead of fatalities per capita, fatalities per driver or even per mile driven would probably be much more relevant.

I'm still not convinced, even with stricter licensing, that a typical driver is more proficient or less aggressive in Germany. City driving is pretty miserable, regardless of where you go in the world, especially in very dense cities with very old road networks.
 
Originally Posted By: kb01
City driving is pretty miserable, regardless of where you go in the world, especially in very dense cities with very old road networks.

City driving doesn't account for many fatalities, does it? I would think that would be doubly so in dense cities, where traffic moves very slowly...
 
Originally Posted By: kb01

Instead of fatalities per capita, fatalities per driver or even per mile driven would probably be much more relevant.


I've seen the numbers. Germany is a bit lower (better) than the US on a fatality per billion km driven basis. IIRC, less than 20% lower.
 
Driving fast is not dangerous.

Using this logic neither is playing Russian Roulette, unless of course the chamber with a cartridge lines up.

Fact of the matter is, xxxt happens.
 
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