Driving a stick -- interesting but highly obsolete

[ItsuMitsubishi]

Since owning a torquey turbo automatic car many years ago, I really warmed up to AT. It's the ATs mated to gutless engines that give it a bad name. Also two AT car's I've owned with lockup torque converters have seen a manual lockup switch added. Manually locking up an auto is the most fun you can have with one, however on the newer ones, you'll have to put up with a P0770 dtc

But I will always appreciate the all-out manhandling manipulability of a manual. Did I ever tell anyone about the time I dislodged the longitudinal shifter cable bushing in the first 3 minutes of driving an NSX?

Ah good times.

 

[lasmacgod]

I prefer manual transmissions, hands down.

That being said, I read somewhere (can't find the article for the life of me now) that one of the reasons for the demise of manual transmissions is emissions. A person controls the shift points of a manual. They can let the engine run at a high rpm for extended periods of time, or lug them down. By transferring to computer-controlled autos, they remove the human element, just like they did when they eliminated carburetors and distributors.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
That reminds me, I have to ask: Why do we still have the notion that manual transmission cars are faster at the track? It may have been true at one time, but I'm pretty sure that time has clearly passed.

Has it not been long enough or something?

Which track? For a 1/4 mile it seems that about 300hp for a compact car is the point where an automatic starts to equal a manual. Under that, automatics are slower.
Road courses?, I'd have to agree with ffracer, for my first trackday having the auto in the neon probably didn't slow me down much as getting the lines right is more important, but it didn't take me long to find myself driving around it. A full DSG paddle shifter auto is no disadvantage but it just simulates a well driven manual transmission.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
There is no replacement for actually being in control of the powerplant and vehcile. *I* choose the gear, *I* choose when to shift.

No frappa-moche-latte-burger-makeup-cellphone with a manual.


Bingo. I will never buy an automatic when I don't have too.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: ItsuMitsubishi
Since owning a torquey turbo automatic car many years ago, I really warmed up to AT. It's the ATs mated to gutless engines that give it a bad name.


true. for bracket racing w/ a high HP car, the repeatability of an auto is an advantage.
turbo cars do well w/ an auto also; the buick GN was an animal, only available w/ an auto.

 

[SteveSRT8]

and adding to the debate, why is a Dual Clutch Sequential gearbox not considered an auto? I've yet to see one that doesn't shift itself if so ordered.

Is an automated manual an auto? Ferrari 458, Mercedes SLS AMG, and Porsche 911 Turbo S all have seven speed dual clutch boxes.

Seems like they may be performance type cars. Maybe.

 

[PeteTheFarmer]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
why is a Dual Clutch Sequential gearbox not considered an auto?


No torque converter

 

[d00df00d]

If you're not engaging the gears and working the clutch yourself, it's an automatic IMO. That includes DCTs. When I want to talk about automatics with torque converters, I usually say "torque converter automatic."

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you're not engaging the gears and working the clutch yourself, it's an automatic IMO.


I disagree, a DSG that uses a clutch faster and more efficiently than even the best of drivers is like an improved manual transmission. Far closer in design and implementation to a typical manual than any automatic. You are still picking the gear you want, just faster.

Although, I would give you the reliability factor. When that gets factored in the standard manual wins hands down.

 

[d00df00d]

From the mechanical perspective, you're right. I guess I was speaking more from the driver's perspective.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I disagree, a DSG that uses a clutch faster and more efficiently than even the best of drivers is like an improved manual transmission. Far closer in design and implementation to a typical manual than any automatic. You are still picking the gear you want, just faster.

If it has a capability to place it in "drive" and let it shift by itself (which I believe they all do), then I'd say it's far closer in operation to a conventional automatic with an "autostick" type feature. The details of it's internal workings may be more like a conventional manual, but it's actual operation is nearly indistinguisable (outside of the time required to shift gears) from an automatic.

jeff

 

[LS2JSTS]

Look into how Porsches PDK system works. I'd be hard pressed to call that an "automatic". But I get the point, it can be operated like a mind numbing automatic, in that sense I agree with both of you.

 

[ueberooo]

I agree, it's hard to describe the added level of control to one not 100% familiar with manual driving. For one, the fact that you're driving in a given gear, limits your speed range; for example, say I'm in 3rd gear on a city road, with throttle at a normal range my speed will be pretty much limited to the range of 10 mph to 30 mph (70+ mph if engine is rev'd to the point I'd have to be deaf not to hear it). On the other hand if I'm in an automatic and don't watch the speedometer I could find myself going 45 mph without really noticing it.

I would say there are pro's and cons to manual, but mostly pro's

There's added control of engine braking and standby power in curves. There's some loss of control by the added time it would take to shift into the right gear if unexpectedly you all the sudden needed it (in an auto just floor it and the computer jerks you in the right gear in an instant). Then, a big one for me, there's the added control and extra fun of being able to hypermile.

I never had much luck with Automatics with manual options. It's just not the same as a manual and I loose track of the gear I'm in; use it for engine braking occasionally, but it's a real pain in. It would have to be a 5 sp shift box at the least.

Originally Posted By: weebl

After getting past the learning curve, I found myself really enjoying driving manual, even if stuck in traffic. I had an extra degree of control I never did with automatics - remaining in lower gears as I work through curves or know I'll need the oomph of a lower gear in the city, not unncessarily downshifting, and most importantly, being forced to really feel the road surface condition and watch traffic so that I can choose the best gear. Definitely it improves safety and reduces driver inattention.