Downloading music and ethics

[Kestas]

I know a lot of people download music over the internet and a lot of it is illegal. But aren't there instances where it is legal?

For instance, what if you already own an LP? Don't you own the rights to that song and you can legally download the song from the internet?

What about me copying the song from the LP to CD with my equipment? Is this illegal?

What if I don't own the equipment to copy but a friend does or some stranger does and makes the song available over the internet (a song that I have on LP)?

Twenty years ago the local library rented LPs to myself and the public for 10¢ a week. I copied the songs I liked onto cassette. Was I in violation of copyright laws? After all, I paid to rent the album.

Was it illegal way back then when nearly everyone was copying music from LPs to cassettes for listening enjoyment in their vehicles?

I'm curious where the line is drawn.

 

[javacontour]

The owning the LP question is interesting.

On to the copying LPs to cassettes it probably was illegal, but there was little or no way to police this.

The CD and internet together brought two things, a digital format and a way to send a like quality image of that data to millions with a few keystrokes.

It also brought a way for those who own the rights to find out who was sharing and go after them.

Both of those were unlikely with LPs and cassettes.

 

[eljefino]

You may copy your records/8-tracks/whatever to CD/ipod etc. Retain the originals in long term storage somewhere.

You may tape music off the radio, even burn that to CD etc. Nobody does this but it's legal. The radio stations pay bulk licensing to BMI/ASCAP for broadcasting. Any album you buy is licensed for home entertainment only; you have to pay on top of this to publicly perform it. Similarly you can use a DVD burner to burn every episode of "CSI" off the TV (digital tv has a nice signal for this) and retain the DVDs... then you don't have to buy the box set for $100/season.

It gets hazier if you DL an mp3 of something you have on vinyl b/c they may have remastered the song for the CD the Mp3 was ripped from. The added price of the CD may pay for the increased clarity, (yeah right) so in a way you're paying for a license for more clear music.

The tape of the record from the library was legal until you returned the record then you would have had to destroy the tape. The excuse for this legality is what if you wanted to listen in your car etc. Actually the "other devices" excuse covers dubbing from any one media to another.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Originally Posted By: eljefino


You may tape music off the radio, even burn that to CD etc. Nobody does this but it's legal. The radio stations pay bulk licensing to BMI/ASCAP for broadcasting.


HD Radio probably won't change things much.
The music industry fears illegal duplication of material recorded from HD Radio signals has made the rollout of HD Radio much slower.

Problem is, who listens to terrestrial radio enough to record anything from it?? Most folks that used to record tapes & resell them have had the market pulled from under them with iPods & MP3 files. People will essentially yawn at HD Radio as they don't want commercials with their digital music.

 

[kargo27]

I used to download free music via Napster and KaZaa but since all those lawsuits happened and they made examples of those people, I deleted it all from my computer.....after I burned it to CD. LOL!

 

[rpn453]

To me, there's no ethical problem with freely aquiring digital versions of analog music you already own. You already paid the money to fund the creation of that music anyway.

 

[Shannow]

The only stuff that I used to download was rare B sides and stuff that the industry never intended to make another cent out of, and a couple of songs from albums that I wanted to check out before buying (a lot of the stuff that I was after needed to be imported, at $45 per CD, and I didn't want to buy stuff that I wouldn't like.)

Not really legal, but I didn't have moral problems, as I wasn't downloading the latest album of my favourites, I was buying them.

Oz used to let you back-up Albums and CD onto tape/CD as long as you owned the original. They've since taken that back.

 

[andyd]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The only stuff that I used to download was rare B sides and stuff that the industry never intended to make another cent out of,

Not really legal, but I didn't have moral problems, as I wasn't downloading the latest album of my favourites, I was buying them.


x2 I loved Napster just to find the most obscure stuff possible. I never considered Napster immoral, or any ddifferent than a public library

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

The downloading of music is only a major problem in America because of the record companies that get a majority of the profits. In other ocuntries, especially Russia, music is extremely cheap ($1-2 an album). Clark Howard has stated that a music CD cost about $0.35 to make, after printing, so why do they cost $12-15? Answer the question however you seem fit, but it is greed, and the sad part is that record sales have increased since file sharing began. If they want to eliminate this, then reduce the cost to $5, or less, per album.

The artist don't benefit much from album sales, so I didn't feel bad when I downloaded (I quit years ago when KazaaLite's server was shut down).

Though, when a family member/friend/co-worker gets the album and they are willing to let you copy it, then there is nothing illegal about that, in my opinion. They own the rights to that copy and can do whatever they want. There are a lot of wiggle words about legality, but everyone has the right to make one "backup" of anything they paid for.

 

[Pablo]

ditto

The Chinese think we are the most insane population on earth for paying even $10 for a CD or DVD!

 

[JHZR2]

Ive downloaded a lot of music that I own the CDs of. In college, where a lot of transferring went on, Id download other tunes by artists whom I already owned their works... I generally wouldnt download anything from artists that I didnt already own at least one album of.

Now I download nothing. When I buy CDs (ebay and amazon have great deals), I burn them myself.

Id gladly pay for songs from the internet, if they didnt try to et you into these pay by the month deals, and if the song I bought was really mine - fully portable, etc.

I grew up on the cusp of the LP/cassette/CD eras. When very young, LPs still sold, a lot. We had cassettes, but by the time we were into 7th and 8th grade, and music was popular, it was about 60/40 CD and cassettes. CD players were too expensive to take to school, so we could record our cds onto mix tapes to put into our walkman. Perfectly legal, as IIRC, cassettes came with a small 'tax' added on to pay for the likely recording of originals that would occur.

To me, my laptop or ipod is like my cassette player. I can record from the cd onto it, no problem... I can also re-burn cds onto mix cds or whatnot. BROAD distribution always is and always was a no-no, but thats not what Im talking about.

JMH

 

[eljefino]

Incidentally, music for the car should always be burnt/backed up to CD-R IMO. Damaging environment and smash-n-grabs are common for "real" CDs.

With iPods and solid-state memory sticks this advice may soon be dated, just as well, moving parts are a liability.

 

[ALS]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Incidentally, music for the car should always be burnt/backed up to CD-R IMO. Damaging environment and smash-n-grabs are common for "real" CDs.


I just paid 31 Euro's for a Limited edition. There is no way I would leave that in the car. Like you said about backing up the originals. There are no originals in my car. I rip the music right off the CD and onto a blank one. Copy the cover front and back and put it in a cheap jewel case.

 

[Shannow]

$12-$15 for a CD ?

We pay $29 to $35, and $45 for an import.

 

[Vilan]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The Chinese think we are the most insane population on earth for paying even $10 for a CD or DVD!


Of course we know the Chinese are ethically pure and would never try to rip off anyone, such as the buyers of toothpaste, pet food, or toys.

Artists may not get a huge portion of CD sales, but they get exactly zero if you download illegally. If I was a musician, I'd be pretty cheesed at people not paying for my music. I wouldn't have a problem with them buying my CD and then converting that to a different format that's more convenient for the buyer. That's how I look at it... WWTAD? (What Would The Artist Do? And no, not "The Artist" as in Prince...)

 

[rpn453]

I wonder what royalties the artists receive when I buy the CD, and how much that changes if I download from a Russian music site?

 

[BarkerMan]

Downloading music is easy. Downloading ethics would be a good trick.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Vilan you make a point, but always remember, the true musicians would be in it solely for the music, not to get rich. That is something the late Dimebag Darrell Abbott suggested to all incoming musicians, and I must agree with that as well.