With so many other variables, how can you accurately identify that your MPGs will drop .03?
I might lose about 2 minutes of sleep over this tonight....
I might lose about 2 minutes of sleep over this tonight....
Don't use your car to charge your smartphone
- Thread starter supton
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I thought the articles were going to cite the erratic current coming out of the alternator as ruining the fragile electronics in the phone. That is something very real, especially with failing voltage regulators.. They kill the lead-acid battery of the car, think of what they may do to a smartphone!
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: wemay
...and only use your lights when you THINK there's an obstacle in the road. just saying.
I wonder when the ban on DRL will be introduced.
Now that's a ban that I could support, at least high-beam DRLs.
Originally Posted By: wemay
...and only use your lights when you THINK there's an obstacle in the road. just saying.
I wonder when the ban on DRL will be introduced.
Now that's a ban that I could support, at least high-beam DRLs.
Article is hyper exaggerating the effects of electric draw on the car's alternator and charging system, thus making engine work harder and reduce MPG.
What a load of [censored].
What a load of [censored].
.03 mpg....why you can get that back by removing all the bumper stickers on the back of the Subaru. Next they'll tell us it "hurts" mpg to heat your car while you're driving it. (Not, Mensa boys, when it's stopped btw)
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Is the alternator putting out a certain amount of current and whatever device or equipment in your car will take it or will the plugged in equipment cause the alternator to increase the output and therefore put a small amount of load on the engine? In other words if you are going down the road at a constant speed and rpm is the alternator outputting more amps than your car needs or just what it needs and thus if you plug your phone in it puts a little bit more load on the engine?
The alternator puts out only as much current as the car needs. As soon as you turn on another electrical accessory, it increases the load on the engine. As soon as you turn electrical items off, the load decreases and the alternator is easier to spin.
Is the alternator putting out a certain amount of current and whatever device or equipment in your car will take it or will the plugged in equipment cause the alternator to increase the output and therefore put a small amount of load on the engine? In other words if you are going down the road at a constant speed and rpm is the alternator outputting more amps than your car needs or just what it needs and thus if you plug your phone in it puts a little bit more load on the engine?
The alternator puts out only as much current as the car needs. As soon as you turn on another electrical accessory, it increases the load on the engine. As soon as you turn electrical items off, the load decreases and the alternator is easier to spin.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
...the load on an alternator for something super low voltage like a phone is just negligible.
Yes, definitely.
When you drive your car, the electrical system is probably drawing between 40 and 80 amps to run the ignition, headlights, HVAC, stereo, etc. In the article the retired GM guy said the average smartphone needs about 4.8 watts to charge. At 14 volts that is about 0.35 amps. The difference between a 50-amp load and a 50.35-amp load would be negligible when you're driving an alternator that is only 60% efficient, turned by a 200hp gasoline engine that is only around 30% efficient.
I think I'll lose 0.03 minutes of sleep tonight over this issue.
...the load on an alternator for something super low voltage like a phone is just negligible.
Yes, definitely.
When you drive your car, the electrical system is probably drawing between 40 and 80 amps to run the ignition, headlights, HVAC, stereo, etc. In the article the retired GM guy said the average smartphone needs about 4.8 watts to charge. At 14 volts that is about 0.35 amps. The difference between a 50-amp load and a 50.35-amp load would be negligible when you're driving an alternator that is only 60% efficient, turned by a 200hp gasoline engine that is only around 30% efficient.
I think I'll lose 0.03 minutes of sleep tonight over this issue.
Yeah, electrical energy from the alternator is not free. When it has to produce more power, the magnetic field in the stator is 'resisting' the movement of the rotor. But the .4 of an amp is so negligible as to not matter.
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Even if this is true, and somebody has concocted an ability to reliably measure this very small mileage difference, it would not have any significance unless weighed against the costs and impacts of charging the phone from an A/C outlet or from some other energy conduit.
Even if that still suggests that charging a phone from the car charger is economically and environmentally troublesome, consider the cost of going on a long trip, letting your phone run down, and then not having the ability to call for help in an emergency. Or what about when a family member calls to get picked up from the bad side of town.
I suggest keeping those phones charged, and using your car to do so when you need to. You may save your own life.
Even if that still suggests that charging a phone from the car charger is economically and environmentally troublesome, consider the cost of going on a long trip, letting your phone run down, and then not having the ability to call for help in an emergency. Or what about when a family member calls to get picked up from the bad side of town.
I suggest keeping those phones charged, and using your car to do so when you need to. You may save your own life.
A better way to solve this is to have speed limit signs lit with LED's and controlled by a computer. Where there's a headwind or bad weather the speed limit can be lowered. On top of that your car system can if there's a head wind or bad weather, turn off unapproved loads like the entertainment system, a/c, heater and other systems including accessory outlets. The final peace can be receiving a speeding ticket from the government GPS traffic control system. They could immediately debit your checking account and failing that shut your car down. Of course you're guilty because you received the GPS automated ticket. Just think how these simple steps paid for by the tax payers and run by the government could help to prevent global warming and releive you of so many difficult decisions and may your life happier. lol
Someone dropped some zeroes off that #. I believe there is a loss maybe 0.03% and reporter did not calculate it quite correctly as 0.0003 loss.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: wemay
...and only use your lights when you THINK there's an obstacle in the road. just saying.
I wonder when the ban on DRL will be introduced.
That's an interesting proposition, considering that the gummint mandated DRL's in the first place. I suppose they can come up with some bee-ess analysis "showing" that DRL's save more than the fuel cost incurred by the reduction in accidents.
Originally Posted By: wemay
...and only use your lights when you THINK there's an obstacle in the road. just saying.
I wonder when the ban on DRL will be introduced.
That's an interesting proposition, considering that the gummint mandated DRL's in the first place. I suppose they can come up with some bee-ess analysis "showing" that DRL's save more than the fuel cost incurred by the reduction in accidents.
I would bet carrying the extra weight of your mother in-law would consume more gas than charging your cell.
I more like "maintain" the charge especially if using it to navigate.
I more like "maintain" the charge especially if using it to navigate.
Originally Posted By: supton
I'm actually not that surprised. I mean, ICE is what, low 20% efficient, at low loading? Hit that with 80% efficient conversion of mechanical energy to electrical, and yeah sure, you can make it sound really good to stuff any car full of batteries so as to disable the alternator.
But 0.03mpg is too small to measure for the average person! Straight up numbers crunching. Which tap danced around the real elephant in the room, if they really want to go down that path: everything else in the car that runs on electricity but which isn't "strictly needed" (radio, seat heaters, etc).
At idle, the engine is even less than 20% efficient. But cruising down the highway, when the engine is making higher power, efficiency is higher. But if you are idling, your car is getting 0 mpg, so how can it be getting .03 mpg less than that if you plug in your cell phone? And how much would your gas mileage suffer if you stuff your car full of batteries?
It's just a silly news story from the nannies at Doomberg intended to make you feel guilty about everything you do.
I'm actually not that surprised. I mean, ICE is what, low 20% efficient, at low loading? Hit that with 80% efficient conversion of mechanical energy to electrical, and yeah sure, you can make it sound really good to stuff any car full of batteries so as to disable the alternator.
But 0.03mpg is too small to measure for the average person! Straight up numbers crunching. Which tap danced around the real elephant in the room, if they really want to go down that path: everything else in the car that runs on electricity but which isn't "strictly needed" (radio, seat heaters, etc).
At idle, the engine is even less than 20% efficient. But cruising down the highway, when the engine is making higher power, efficiency is higher. But if you are idling, your car is getting 0 mpg, so how can it be getting .03 mpg less than that if you plug in your cell phone? And how much would your gas mileage suffer if you stuff your car full of batteries?
It's just a silly news story from the nannies at Doomberg intended to make you feel guilty about everything you do.
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Originally Posted By: rslifkin
So in the grand scheme of things, it's so irrelevant that anyone who worries about it is an idiot, IMO.
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Even if this is true, and somebody has concocted an ability to reliably measure this very small mileage difference, it would not have any significance unless weighed against the costs and impacts of charging the phone from an A/C outlet or from some other energy conduit.
I suggest keeping those phones charged, and using your car to do so when you need to. You may save your own life.
Totally agree with both!
So in the grand scheme of things, it's so irrelevant that anyone who worries about it is an idiot, IMO.
Originally Posted By: TomYoung
Even if this is true, and somebody has concocted an ability to reliably measure this very small mileage difference, it would not have any significance unless weighed against the costs and impacts of charging the phone from an A/C outlet or from some other energy conduit.
I suggest keeping those phones charged, and using your car to do so when you need to. You may save your own life.
Totally agree with both!
Obviously, some [censored] idiot at the EPA has far too much free time on their itty, bitty, greeny hands.
The new definition of myopic...
The new definition of myopic...
`
Originally Posted By: supton
Charging a smartphone while driving isn't as free as you think
Quote:
That’s because a phone drawing electricity from a USB port cuts 0.03 miles from each gallon of gasoline in a tank. Across the fleet of vehicles in the U.S., that would mean about 970,000 tons of extra planet-warming carbon dioxide a year...
Quote:
The estimated extra CO2 created by plugging in one phone in every car in the U.S. would be about the same as that produced by 185,257 passenger vehicles in one year, according to an Environmental Protection Agency website that converts greenhouse gas into real-world equivalents. Put another way, that’s the pollution created by burning 945 million pounds of coal.
By far, the cheapest way to charge a smartphone is at home, Bereisa said. With gasoline at $2 a gallon, it costs about 2 cents an hour to charge a phone in a car compared with about 0.06 cent at home, or 33 times less. Gasoline would have to fall to 6 cents a gallon to compete with home electricity, he said. It would also produce about half the carbon dioxide.
What ever!!
Originally Posted By: supton
Charging a smartphone while driving isn't as free as you think
Quote:
That’s because a phone drawing electricity from a USB port cuts 0.03 miles from each gallon of gasoline in a tank. Across the fleet of vehicles in the U.S., that would mean about 970,000 tons of extra planet-warming carbon dioxide a year...
Quote:
The estimated extra CO2 created by plugging in one phone in every car in the U.S. would be about the same as that produced by 185,257 passenger vehicles in one year, according to an Environmental Protection Agency website that converts greenhouse gas into real-world equivalents. Put another way, that’s the pollution created by burning 945 million pounds of coal.
By far, the cheapest way to charge a smartphone is at home, Bereisa said. With gasoline at $2 a gallon, it costs about 2 cents an hour to charge a phone in a car compared with about 0.06 cent at home, or 33 times less. Gasoline would have to fall to 6 cents a gallon to compete with home electricity, he said. It would also produce about half the carbon dioxide.
What ever!!
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
We have a pretty strong elninio this year so of course the GW/Climate change crowd is coming out of the woodwork as usual.
What's next? Breathing is bad for the environment as well? Perhaps they should do a calculation on how much more CO2 a person that is exercising is emitting vs one that sits in front of a TV.
I think breathing may be. They are focusing on CO2 now ...
We have a pretty strong elninio this year so of course the GW/Climate change crowd is coming out of the woodwork as usual.
What's next? Breathing is bad for the environment as well? Perhaps they should do a calculation on how much more CO2 a person that is exercising is emitting vs one that sits in front of a TV.
I think breathing may be. They are focusing on CO2 now ...
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