Did you see his pic on drudge? The Ruskies must have dosed him with a bio-weapon or something.
Looks like Yanukovych wins one way or the other.
Looks like Yanukovych wins one way or the other.
Does Yushchenko have Smallpox?
- Thread starter JAYCEE
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Yuschenko will win ! I don't have doubts. This is people's choice. Ukraina will not have president a former criminal. Only orange colors !
But what's Yuschenko face got to do with russians ? This is somobody's ill imagination, so please don't retell tales involving russians in all events.
But what's Yuschenko face got to do with russians ? This is somobody's ill imagination, so please don't retell tales involving russians in all events.
Yanukovich has already won. They are just waiting for the unrest to settle down a bit to declare him the winner.
Hey, I hope we get a lot more of the Eastern Europe politics.
I saw two photos which are supposed to be him 1 year ago and how he looks currently. Didn't look like the same man.
His flat face now has a prominent chin, narrow nose (looked like it had cosmetic surgery early in his life) now is more of a ski jump than a downward hook, and his eyebrows have grown longer and rapped around his eyes which have totaly changed shape. He now has eyelids where before his eyes looked much tinier and recessed giving very small eyelids. Even his cowlick is gone.
I don't think it is the same man based on the changes in bone stucture to his face.
Perhaps the part about him being ill causing the sudden changes is just the cover for substituting a new man for the job.
Anyone over there who speaks the language notice any changes to his voice or speech patterns?
His flat face now has a prominent chin, narrow nose (looked like it had cosmetic surgery early in his life) now is more of a ski jump than a downward hook, and his eyebrows have grown longer and rapped around his eyes which have totaly changed shape. He now has eyelids where before his eyes looked much tinier and recessed giving very small eyelids. Even his cowlick is gone.
I don't think it is the same man based on the changes in bone stucture to his face.
Perhaps the part about him being ill causing the sudden changes is just the cover for substituting a new man for the job.
Anyone over there who speaks the language notice any changes to his voice or speech patterns?
Check out this article photo which shows blue on the protestors and not orange. Couldn't they come up with a photo of the orange protestors
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/st...0041127/1423877243.htm&photoid=20041126XAZ112
Wulimaster,
I would not judge about the situation just on photos, but I like that this time western media shows all aspects of political situation and mood. It's true that a big number of people voted for Yanukovych in Crimea and eastern part of Ukraine, especially in Donetsk and Lugansk regions, but only in Crimea Yanukovych win does not evoke doubts. As for Donetsk and Lugansk regions, numerous mines are still under administrative-criminal control and miners will do everything they are told if they don't like to lose their jobs. TV shows pictures of both, orange and blue protestors, but faces of people in blue don't manifest an enthusiasm or a belief in what they do. This reminds me a lot the time of the USSR when people expressed true thoughts in the kitchen, but voted "unanimously and in the single outburst" for the cause of the communist party and government. Besides, all administration of Donetsk and Lugansk is Yanukovych protege and personally obliged to him for the prosperity. That's why they had to do everything possible to ensure Yanukovych win, but having administrative possibilities it was quite easy to falcify 3-5 % or even up to 10 % of votes. The real result could be about 47 % to 53 % in favor of Yushchenko. It's clear that the cause of actual political crisis is not candidates themselves, but by the choice of a future political way. Unlike elections on the West in Ukraine candidates offer too different ways.
I would not judge about the situation just on photos, but I like that this time western media shows all aspects of political situation and mood. It's true that a big number of people voted for Yanukovych in Crimea and eastern part of Ukraine, especially in Donetsk and Lugansk regions, but only in Crimea Yanukovych win does not evoke doubts. As for Donetsk and Lugansk regions, numerous mines are still under administrative-criminal control and miners will do everything they are told if they don't like to lose their jobs. TV shows pictures of both, orange and blue protestors, but faces of people in blue don't manifest an enthusiasm or a belief in what they do. This reminds me a lot the time of the USSR when people expressed true thoughts in the kitchen, but voted "unanimously and in the single outburst" for the cause of the communist party and government. Besides, all administration of Donetsk and Lugansk is Yanukovych protege and personally obliged to him for the prosperity. That's why they had to do everything possible to ensure Yanukovych win, but having administrative possibilities it was quite easy to falcify 3-5 % or even up to 10 % of votes. The real result could be about 47 % to 53 % in favor of Yushchenko. It's clear that the cause of actual political crisis is not candidates themselves, but by the choice of a future political way. Unlike elections on the West in Ukraine candidates offer too different ways.
I love how Yushchenko supporters cry "vote fraud" but then turn around and say in the same breath that their boy should be installed based on that same faulty election. (The election was faulty, therefore Yushchenko won.)
Primus, if Yushchenko manages to overcome his sudden illness--and the problem that too few people voted for him--and actually take power, can we expect a crop of Ukranian Oligarchs to steal the wealth of Ukraine the way they did in Russia? That's what happened the last time a "pro-Western" stooge managed to stumble his way to power in that part of the world. Boris Yeltsin sold out the Russian people to Boris Berezovsky, Vladimir Gusinsky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, and all the rest of these filthy traitors.
Will this happen in Yushchenko's Ukraine?
We don't need another Yeltsin. And we don't need more Oligarchs.
Primus, if Yushchenko manages to overcome his sudden illness--and the problem that too few people voted for him--and actually take power, can we expect a crop of Ukranian Oligarchs to steal the wealth of Ukraine the way they did in Russia? That's what happened the last time a "pro-Western" stooge managed to stumble his way to power in that part of the world. Boris Yeltsin sold out the Russian people to Boris Berezovsky, Vladimir Gusinsky, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, and all the rest of these filthy traitors.
Will this happen in Yushchenko's Ukraine?
We don't need another Yeltsin. And we don't need more Oligarchs.
I say the KGB arranged a bottle of very special vodka for him.
http://www.musicmissionkiev.org
-----------------------------------------------
TROUBLE IN KIEV
As I traveled by plane back to Ukraine last week, I was accompanied by eighty international observers from many states in the USA who were coming to oversee the election for President of Ukraine. Many of them had been to Georgia, Kosovo, or Egypt on other election assignments. Their responsibility is watching the poling process and to report any irregularities in election procedure.
As it turned out, they were on the edge of a highly controversial Presidential election. Victor Yushenko, the opposition candidate of Ukrainian prime minister Victor Yanokovich, had won the hearts of the people who were saying, "Finally we have an honest leader who will help rid us of the corrupt government we have endured for so long."
But corrupt governments are difficult to purge. Out-going President Kuchma has been accused of contracting the beheading of a journalist in the forest for speaking against his policies. Though not conclusively proven, there is evidence that has inflamed the Ukrainian public concerning Kuchma's character. Also, a political rival of Kuchma was killed in a mysterious automobile crash.
Yushenko was allegedly poisoned this year by his political opponents with a chemical that not only put him in a Viennese hospital, but has left his face scarred and partially paralyzed, after he had lunch with a security official. Yushenko says of the disfigurement, "That is the price of victory."
Yushenko's people documented 11,000 violations during the elections: people voting at home, people being bused to different locations to vote twice, absentee ballots being used as second votes for individuals, state employers insisting that their employees surrender their ballots to them, rightful voter's names being erased from the list, people who came to vote being refused, and the list goes on. Yushenko's team said that these violations were orchestrated by President Kuchma and his personally-endorsed candidate Victor Yanokovich.
The independent international observers had their own list of inconsistencies. From the first day after the election, it seemed that we were facing some tense days.
On Tuesday, Roger and I were taking a walk downtown, and came into a crowd of 100,000 people who had assembled in Independence Square to peacefully protest the report being circulated that Yanokovich had defeated their candidate Yushenko, 49% to 46%. It was not yet official, and by showing support in great numbers, they hoped to bring attention to the illegal practices of the administration. They wore orange ribbons and carried orange flags, the color of freedom under Yushenko's campaign. Soon we were caught up in the joyous atmosphere of these freedom-loving people, and we put ribbons on our coats. Kiev had voted 75% in favor of Yushenko. But it was not just Kievites who came. People from all over Ukraine had gathered.
They were hopeful, enthusiastic, and idealistic that the vote of the majority would not be stolen by corrupt government officials. After all, these powerful politicians had a lot to lose if they were defeated. They might have to pay for their crimes. Yanokovich had already been in jail twice for criminal activity. One of the most corrupt practices of the government officials is to pass immunity laws so that they cannot be prosecuted for any infringement of the law. Therefore, we have bandits running the country who are "above the law," and they also allow their Mafia colleagues to live with the same privileges.
No wonder the crowds are so desperate to hang on to this last chance for freedom and human dignity. If they surrender now, not only will the whole country be drawn deeper into Russian domination, as opposed to openness to Europe and the West, but their freedom of expression will be dimmed, if not extinguished, in the years to come.
Yet the crowd was so polite, allowing people to pass through its midst in narrow aisles, marked only by courtesy of the bystanders. There was little, if any, alcoholic beverages being consumed. All I saw was Coca-Cola. All ages were represented - many college students, but also elderly people, moms, dads, and children - all wearing orange and shouting "Yu-shen-ko! Yu-shen-ko!"
The chanting continued day and night as the crowd grew to 200,000 people jamming the road in all directions. Yushenko and other high political figures, who had aligned themselves with his cause, came to a central platform and spoke on the loud-speakers as their images were shown on the large screens to each side. As the gathering lingered into the dark evening hours, entertainers took the stage, playing music while the crowd swayed their yellow and orange flags as well as their bodies to keep warm.
The crowd stayed all night. Some had tents in the middle of the main street of Kreshatik surrounded by a barrier. There they could get warm. The next morning it started to snow. Still they kept coming, by the busloads from other cities in Ukraine, with flags and ribbons and banners of the city they represented.
Standing in the snow is something that few Americans do. In 1993, I used to stand in line for bread in the snow for 45 minutes at a time. And that seemed long. Imagine standing in the snow for 3 days. That's what they have done.
On the second day, Roger went with the crowd to the Parliament building and stood with them, as the Parliament was to discuss this political crisis. But Yanokovich's people didn't show up, so that they could not have a quorom. Therefore, no official action could be taken to investigate the allegations of election fraud.
And the snow kept falling. And the winds picked up. Soon the snow was blowing hard. But the people stood in the square, waiting for their candidate to be recognized. By many evidences, Yushenko had won the election, but it was being stolen by those already in power.
Last night in the blowing snow the huge crowd marched up the hill to the President's administration office building (like the American White House) hoping to take possession of this space for their duly elected leader, Yushenko. But these tens of thousands did not carry guns. They carried flowers. And the riot police who met them found words of brotherly persuasion, and when the guards would not yield, the people left the flowers on their shields and retreated for another day.
Today was the coldest, bitterest day yet. Yes, the weather is severe. I don't know how they stand in that square, day and night. Someone said, if they leave, that will be the end of freedom for Ukraine. We have sent food and warm clothing to help them, as have thousands of others in Kiev. As the conflict escalates, we are at home watching live broadcasts in Ukrainian on our television, praying for them.
But the bitterest event of the day was when the Central Committee proclaimed Yanokovich as the truly elected President based upon the votes that were reported to them. (It is rumored that these committee members have accepted bribes for this decision.) As the chairman of the committee read the numbers (some of them quite preposterous) from the various regions of Ukraine, it was blatantly obvious that only a few of Yushenko's party were allowed in the room, and more than 80% represented the other party, even when the vote was reported nearly equal.
So far there has been no violence. But civil disobedience is all that is left to call for justice. Tomorrow there is to be a strike, particularly with transportation, factories, and schools. The Kyiv Symphony Orchestra and Chorus will not be meeting for rehearsals until this conflict is resolved, but they will meet for prayer. Kuchma says that the country is on the brink of civil war. Emotions are high.
Please pray for Ukraine. There are so many dangers that lurk in the shadows of rumor. Some say that the miners loyal to Yanokovich will be headed from Donetsk to Kiev to break up the crowds by violence. Some report military troops in neighboring towns of Kiev, even some Russian military, ready to intervene. There are demonstrators loyal to Yanokovich camped out in Kiev not far from the Independence Square, but their numbers are much less, yet they could pose a threat. Yushenko's people are urged to be peaceful and demonstrate without violence. But their strength is infuriating the opposition.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day. We will be celebrating this American holiday with our fellow missionaries and American friends, and spend time in prayer for our Ukrainians. I am so thankful, that even though we find ourselves going through hard times in this country, the people of Ukraine have a thirst for freedom, much unlike the early days in 1993, when few people wanted to participate in the political process. "Why vote?" they would say. "It doesn't do any good. Criminals will always run the country, no matter what anyone does." Now ten years later, they see that democracy is possible. And they are willing to suffer for it. The Western press has not seen the theme of this conflict. It is not East vs. West in political thought. It is honest government vs. continued corruption.
-----------------------------------------------
TROUBLE IN KIEV
As I traveled by plane back to Ukraine last week, I was accompanied by eighty international observers from many states in the USA who were coming to oversee the election for President of Ukraine. Many of them had been to Georgia, Kosovo, or Egypt on other election assignments. Their responsibility is watching the poling process and to report any irregularities in election procedure.
As it turned out, they were on the edge of a highly controversial Presidential election. Victor Yushenko, the opposition candidate of Ukrainian prime minister Victor Yanokovich, had won the hearts of the people who were saying, "Finally we have an honest leader who will help rid us of the corrupt government we have endured for so long."
But corrupt governments are difficult to purge. Out-going President Kuchma has been accused of contracting the beheading of a journalist in the forest for speaking against his policies. Though not conclusively proven, there is evidence that has inflamed the Ukrainian public concerning Kuchma's character. Also, a political rival of Kuchma was killed in a mysterious automobile crash.
Yushenko was allegedly poisoned this year by his political opponents with a chemical that not only put him in a Viennese hospital, but has left his face scarred and partially paralyzed, after he had lunch with a security official. Yushenko says of the disfigurement, "That is the price of victory."
Yushenko's people documented 11,000 violations during the elections: people voting at home, people being bused to different locations to vote twice, absentee ballots being used as second votes for individuals, state employers insisting that their employees surrender their ballots to them, rightful voter's names being erased from the list, people who came to vote being refused, and the list goes on. Yushenko's team said that these violations were orchestrated by President Kuchma and his personally-endorsed candidate Victor Yanokovich.
The independent international observers had their own list of inconsistencies. From the first day after the election, it seemed that we were facing some tense days.
On Tuesday, Roger and I were taking a walk downtown, and came into a crowd of 100,000 people who had assembled in Independence Square to peacefully protest the report being circulated that Yanokovich had defeated their candidate Yushenko, 49% to 46%. It was not yet official, and by showing support in great numbers, they hoped to bring attention to the illegal practices of the administration. They wore orange ribbons and carried orange flags, the color of freedom under Yushenko's campaign. Soon we were caught up in the joyous atmosphere of these freedom-loving people, and we put ribbons on our coats. Kiev had voted 75% in favor of Yushenko. But it was not just Kievites who came. People from all over Ukraine had gathered.
They were hopeful, enthusiastic, and idealistic that the vote of the majority would not be stolen by corrupt government officials. After all, these powerful politicians had a lot to lose if they were defeated. They might have to pay for their crimes. Yanokovich had already been in jail twice for criminal activity. One of the most corrupt practices of the government officials is to pass immunity laws so that they cannot be prosecuted for any infringement of the law. Therefore, we have bandits running the country who are "above the law," and they also allow their Mafia colleagues to live with the same privileges.
No wonder the crowds are so desperate to hang on to this last chance for freedom and human dignity. If they surrender now, not only will the whole country be drawn deeper into Russian domination, as opposed to openness to Europe and the West, but their freedom of expression will be dimmed, if not extinguished, in the years to come.
Yet the crowd was so polite, allowing people to pass through its midst in narrow aisles, marked only by courtesy of the bystanders. There was little, if any, alcoholic beverages being consumed. All I saw was Coca-Cola. All ages were represented - many college students, but also elderly people, moms, dads, and children - all wearing orange and shouting "Yu-shen-ko! Yu-shen-ko!"
The chanting continued day and night as the crowd grew to 200,000 people jamming the road in all directions. Yushenko and other high political figures, who had aligned themselves with his cause, came to a central platform and spoke on the loud-speakers as their images were shown on the large screens to each side. As the gathering lingered into the dark evening hours, entertainers took the stage, playing music while the crowd swayed their yellow and orange flags as well as their bodies to keep warm.
The crowd stayed all night. Some had tents in the middle of the main street of Kreshatik surrounded by a barrier. There they could get warm. The next morning it started to snow. Still they kept coming, by the busloads from other cities in Ukraine, with flags and ribbons and banners of the city they represented.
Standing in the snow is something that few Americans do. In 1993, I used to stand in line for bread in the snow for 45 minutes at a time. And that seemed long. Imagine standing in the snow for 3 days. That's what they have done.
On the second day, Roger went with the crowd to the Parliament building and stood with them, as the Parliament was to discuss this political crisis. But Yanokovich's people didn't show up, so that they could not have a quorom. Therefore, no official action could be taken to investigate the allegations of election fraud.
And the snow kept falling. And the winds picked up. Soon the snow was blowing hard. But the people stood in the square, waiting for their candidate to be recognized. By many evidences, Yushenko had won the election, but it was being stolen by those already in power.
Last night in the blowing snow the huge crowd marched up the hill to the President's administration office building (like the American White House) hoping to take possession of this space for their duly elected leader, Yushenko. But these tens of thousands did not carry guns. They carried flowers. And the riot police who met them found words of brotherly persuasion, and when the guards would not yield, the people left the flowers on their shields and retreated for another day.
Today was the coldest, bitterest day yet. Yes, the weather is severe. I don't know how they stand in that square, day and night. Someone said, if they leave, that will be the end of freedom for Ukraine. We have sent food and warm clothing to help them, as have thousands of others in Kiev. As the conflict escalates, we are at home watching live broadcasts in Ukrainian on our television, praying for them.
But the bitterest event of the day was when the Central Committee proclaimed Yanokovich as the truly elected President based upon the votes that were reported to them. (It is rumored that these committee members have accepted bribes for this decision.) As the chairman of the committee read the numbers (some of them quite preposterous) from the various regions of Ukraine, it was blatantly obvious that only a few of Yushenko's party were allowed in the room, and more than 80% represented the other party, even when the vote was reported nearly equal.
So far there has been no violence. But civil disobedience is all that is left to call for justice. Tomorrow there is to be a strike, particularly with transportation, factories, and schools. The Kyiv Symphony Orchestra and Chorus will not be meeting for rehearsals until this conflict is resolved, but they will meet for prayer. Kuchma says that the country is on the brink of civil war. Emotions are high.
Please pray for Ukraine. There are so many dangers that lurk in the shadows of rumor. Some say that the miners loyal to Yanokovich will be headed from Donetsk to Kiev to break up the crowds by violence. Some report military troops in neighboring towns of Kiev, even some Russian military, ready to intervene. There are demonstrators loyal to Yanokovich camped out in Kiev not far from the Independence Square, but their numbers are much less, yet they could pose a threat. Yushenko's people are urged to be peaceful and demonstrate without violence. But their strength is infuriating the opposition.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day. We will be celebrating this American holiday with our fellow missionaries and American friends, and spend time in prayer for our Ukrainians. I am so thankful, that even though we find ourselves going through hard times in this country, the people of Ukraine have a thirst for freedom, much unlike the early days in 1993, when few people wanted to participate in the political process. "Why vote?" they would say. "It doesn't do any good. Criminals will always run the country, no matter what anyone does." Now ten years later, they see that democracy is possible. And they are willing to suffer for it. The Western press has not seen the theme of this conflict. It is not East vs. West in political thought. It is honest government vs. continued corruption.
The "Western" press wouldn't know honest gov't if they steped in it. Remember their darling Bill Clinton. There are hundreds of dead bodies surrounding this lying crook, yet the media gave him a pass. Being a "friend of Bill" was a fatal condition but the press never raised one single objection.
I say, if the "western" media are in favor of something, I'm against it. Where were their shouts of outrage when JFK stole the presidency in 1960? He clearly stole TX and IL, but he is worshipped by "Western" media. Most people are unaware that the 1960 election was stolen.
If democracy ended corruption, crooks like Clinton and Kennedy and Bush wouldn't even consider running for office. Democracy is not the solution to corruption, it is more the cause of corruption.
What Ukraine--and the US--needs is a real patriot: a man of principle who will sweep aside the filth and put our nations back on a healthy course. I doubt either man in Ukraine is up to the task.
Very difficult question. I don't know, may be already sold out, but we just don't see it because Ukraine is not so reach as Russia. I would like the future president, irrespective whether it will be Yanukovych or Yushchenko, will not be pro-western or pro-Russian, but pro-Ukrainian. And believe that actual Ukrainian society is more mature to make right conclusions and right choice. As for Russia, it's a pity, but you are fully right. Anyway, I'm moving to Ukraine.
Primus, you said;
Our small Church supports a College ( Crimean American College) in Ukraine and I pray for all involved in attempting to free themselves from tyranny, whatever flavor.
I agree 100 % !
Our prayers and financial support are with you and those in Ukraine.
I agree 100 % !
Our small Church supports a College ( Crimean American College) in Ukraine and I pray for all involved in attempting to free themselves from tyranny, whatever flavor.
I agree 100 % !
Our prayers and financial support are with you and those in Ukraine.
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