Does Redline kill trannies?
- Thread starter Jon Dalton
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I don't think their is really an issue here. What both of you guys are stating is true. The small blenders can really only be as good as the companies making the base-oils/additives. On the flip side, the big guy's (Shell, Chevron etc.) other then Mobil 1, sell oil for $$ and don't really give you what they are capable of as we see with their Grp I,II and III based oils at Walmart. Mobil 1 is unique and is an incredible buy. It's an incredible buy bc of the volume of oil they sell, their R&D, experience, fact tha they make all the components and pride in what they make. Amsoil's prices are inflated bd they don't make any additives. Blenders though have the flexability to take the good and bad from any company and make a good oil. Agree?
Let me, for a moment, defend the "big guys".
I think they give you what they are capable of at particular price points.
Someone who buys a car, or leases a car, and drives it 12,000 miles a year for two years doesn't want to spend $4.99 for a quart of oil.
And you should have seen hat was on sale 40 years ago. And at prices that adjusted for inflation would buy today's synthetics!
I think there are some real buys out there.
Mobil 1 in general is a good buy and has gone down, not up, in price.
Some of the Chevron products, like the Group III Havoline "synthetics" I see in the stores for under $4 and sometimes for under $3, appear to be
good serviceable products at a fair price. The boys and girls at Chevron are no dummies.
And where do the profits go? I can't say that if you buy a quart of Mobil 1 instead a quart of Amsoil that A. J. Amatuzio's daughter Lyn will buy a new Harley, but there are a lot of widows and orphans, and California public employees, and school teachers, whose trusts and pensions are invested in Exxon Mobil.
MolaKule
Staff member
Are you referring to part of the base oil mix or are you referring to an amide ester antioxidant, which would be considered to be part of the additive package.
Most base oil esters such as TMP, PE, and TME, also serve as rust inhibitors and surfactants as well.
The newer overbased calcium adds are indeed a great addition. Sometimes, the calcium is in the form of a calcium borate detergent, which combines the advantages of calcium and boron. Boron is a secondary AW agent and antioxidant as well.
I suspect that Amsoil uses the latter, since both their calcium and boron levels are slightly below that of Mobil 1 R.
Some prefer to use a separate boron such as Amide Boron Ester.
Regarding the magnesium adds: The newer adds are much less volatile than the older MgS2 adds and do not create as many deposits as did the older HDEO MgS2 adds. So I don't think magnesium is an issue.
Again, I have no interest, stocks or otherwise in either company.
[ September 29, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
MolaKule
Staff member
Does Redline kill transmissions?
The answer is an emphatic no, and neither does Amsoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, etc. etc.
The answer is an emphatic no, and neither does Amsoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, etc. etc.
Getting back to the Getrag question, has anyone checked the section drawing supplied by Getrag here ? (if any one can post the drawing, that would be great)
If this pin, called the 'Select pin 1/2' has a solid head, with no 'venting', either in the bore or the head itself, it would 'hydraulic' and create sticky, heavy, unpredictable shifting. On the drawing it appears to show two holes through the head of the pin, so can anyone confirm they actually exist ?
On some Hewland race car transaxles produced during the seventies/eighties, this exact same thing occured, and the fix was to drill a small (40 thou or so) 'vent' from the base of the detent bore. Problem solved. This was detailed in one of Caroll Smith's excellent ".....to Win" series of race engineering books.
Just a thought, as at the moment, I can't accept a DU bush will swell, regardless of what fluid it is used with. H#ll, I've seen them used in reciprocating refrigeration compressors as main bearings and therefore subjected to a mix of chloroflurocarbons and either mineral oil or polyolesters.
Rick.
If this pin, called the 'Select pin 1/2' has a solid head, with no 'venting', either in the bore or the head itself, it would 'hydraulic' and create sticky, heavy, unpredictable shifting. On the drawing it appears to show two holes through the head of the pin, so can anyone confirm they actually exist ?
On some Hewland race car transaxles produced during the seventies/eighties, this exact same thing occured, and the fix was to drill a small (40 thou or so) 'vent' from the base of the detent bore. Problem solved. This was detailed in one of Caroll Smith's excellent ".....to Win" series of race engineering books.
Just a thought, as at the moment, I can't accept a DU bush will swell, regardless of what fluid it is used with. H#ll, I've seen them used in reciprocating refrigeration compressors as main bearings and therefore subjected to a mix of chloroflurocarbons and either mineral oil or polyolesters.
Rick.
redline does not kill transmissions, i noticed smoother shifting using mt90 compared to synpower ot mobil 1.
When talking about modern automatic transmissions, "smooth" shifts are not necessarily a good thing. If your definition of smooth means that you don't feel the shift points in the transmission operation, that IS DEFINITELY a bad thing. Most modern A/T's rely heavily on very sophisticated, electronically controlled clutch packs. Inside your transmission, there is a constant trade-off between the clutch packs undergoing considerably increased wear and the automaker/fluidmaker's desire to provide an illusion of smoothness and "refined-ness" in the gear changes.
The positive kind of "smoothness" in a transmission is a the absence of recoils, slippages, grabbing and hard jolts, but you still want "quiet", discrete shift points: firm, sure shifts!! A good fluid aid the transmission in achieving this objective. A fluid that messes with this discreteness by making the clutch packs slip all the way is NOT a good thing.
Not saying the Redline is a bad fluid or causes the aforementioned "bad smoothness", just that all smoothness is NOT a good thing.
So, don't determine a suitable fluid, simply change the manual trans to an automatic?
MolaKule
Staff member
But the isn't the Gertrag in question a manual shift transmission, and wasn't crypto referring to a manual as well?
Cryptokid, not all transmissions like Redline MT-90 in its raw, unadulterated form. My 5-speed manual Suzuki Sidekick 4X4 had gone 5 years on its factory fill dino gear oil when I finally decided on an oil change.
Once the Redline MT-90 went in, I was disappointed to find my shifts to be no better than the old dino gear oil.....if anything, the shifts became slightly rougher, more grinding.
Back to the shop for "remedial action." The shop boys and me decided that adding a little Schaeffer Moly E.P. additive would make things better. Schaeffer + Redline MT-90, and now the thing works like a charm. Now, I can even shift gears without using the clutch.
I guess this will settle it once and for all -
This morning I went out to my car and saw a large red puddle under the transaxle.
My first thought was trans suicide, but dripped on the pavement in red MTL was the word "REDLINE"- my trans' deathbed accusation.
Absolute proof that Redline kills transmisions!
This morning I went out to my car and saw a large red puddle under the transaxle.
My first thought was trans suicide, but dripped on the pavement in red MTL was the word "REDLINE"- my trans' deathbed accusation.
Absolute proof that Redline kills transmisions!
sorry gmttr1 but i dont own any automatic automobiles. i guess i am a control freak, i love manual transmissions! maybe when i am too old and weak to shift then i shall buy an automatic transmission car but untill then ill keep clutchin away
.
my friend with the exact same car i have also expierenced improved smoother shifting after switching to mt90 so im not alone in saying that mt90 really is good stuff!
my friend with the exact same car i have also expierenced improved smoother shifting after switching to mt90 so im not alone in saying that mt90 really is good stuff!
There is an issue with Red Line D4 ATF and tremec transmissions. From what I hear, the carbonfiber synchros will become brittle and could possibly crumble over time. Some kind of chemical reaction that's known to happen in later model (SN-95) Mustangs/Cobras.
Tremec suggests GM Synchromesh as a substitute for Mercon V.
Tremec suggests GM Synchromesh as a substitute for Mercon V.
For a little history on GM's T-56 in the 98-00 F-body's, head on over to the LS1.com MN6 and Clutch and/or LS1Tech.com manual transmission forums and do a Search on chucky2...you'll find a few threads that I've posted in that show how bad the Urban Legend (in my opinion) is on the synthetic killing blocker rings in those transmissions...
To date, I've heard of 2 people that think have credible evidence of a synthetic lube killing their T-56...and both of those were using Royal Purple's MAX ATF...users of Royal Purple Synchromax have had positive results...
Chuck
To date, I've heard of 2 people that think have credible evidence of a synthetic lube killing their T-56...and both of those were using Royal Purple's MAX ATF...users of Royal Purple Synchromax have had positive results...
Chuck
Mickey_M, What I meant was that seal materials resistance to common solvents and lubricateing basestocks is a no-brainer. Nothing Redline uses in their oils is new or challangeing to modern polymer seal materials. The esters used by Redline,Motul,Amsoil,Fuch,XOM,Castrol,Penrite and every other automotive lubricante blender have been arond for a very very long time. It is not unreasonable to expect the plomers and alloys in a transmission to be able to handle them. I do not belive that the base stock cause damage to the materials in the DA busching. I would love to a DA bushing swell!!
Their is no way anyone would know what esters are in what product anyways as these are not avertised by most manufactures especialy in the USA.
Imagine if a major car company made a front main seal that would leak badly if any esters or PAO came in contact with the seal? I am sure we would all cry foul! What if it was a design issue of supplier issues that was well known internaly? Silent recalls or fix's have been part of the auto industry for a long time! They still go on to this day even with domstic names!
Their is no way anyone would know what esters are in what product anyways as these are not avertised by most manufactures especialy in the USA.
Imagine if a major car company made a front main seal that would leak badly if any esters or PAO came in contact with the seal? I am sure we would all cry foul! What if it was a design issue of supplier issues that was well known internaly? Silent recalls or fix's have been part of the auto industry for a long time! They still go on to this day even with domstic names!
In general esters of all types are more solvent than mineral oils or polyalphaolefins. In addition they are "polar", polyol esters more typically so than di esters.
There may be more tendency to seal swell, seal softening, and oil migration past seals with esters over mineral oils.
I would not be willing to go out on a limb and state unequivocally that you would not encounter a seal incompatibility with Redline, Motul, Amsoil, Fuch, XOM, or Penrite. I do suppose that they have worked to achieve compatibility.
It's pretty much settled that a straight polyalphaolefin (PAO) will cause some seal shrinkage, and so a bit of something (typically an ester) is added to compensate and to aid in getting additives in solution.
Just purchased a 2004 Toyota Tacoma 4-cylinder
5 speed. Was going to use Redline in the transmission and transfer case. After reading
the post I do not know what lube to use. What
would you experts use. In past Toyota applications
I used Mobil 1 gear lube. But the transmission go more notchy. Also Amsoil made shifting worse.Toyota calls for a 75-90wt GL-4 or GL-5 gear lubricant.
5 speed. Was going to use Redline in the transmission and transfer case. After reading
the post I do not know what lube to use. What
would you experts use. In past Toyota applications
I used Mobil 1 gear lube. But the transmission go more notchy. Also Amsoil made shifting worse.Toyota calls for a 75-90wt GL-4 or GL-5 gear lubricant.
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