Does/Is Group II now a synthetic oil?

[LargeCarManX2]

The American Petroleum Institute (API) developed a classification or grouping of lubricant base stocks to better show the differences between the different types. Each type of lubricant base stock is included in one of five groups as summarized below: Note: on Bitog group III has been the synthetic baseline:

Group I

< 90

> 0.03

80 ≤ VI < 120

Conventional Petroleum Oil

Group II

≥ 90

< 0.03

80 ≤ VI < 120

Hydrocracked III

≥ 90

< 0.03

≥ 120

Hydrocracked and isomerized IV

Polyalphaolefins (PAOs)

Group V

All other stocks not included in Group I, II, III or IV. (Esters, PAGs, silicones, etc.)


In the API classification, all the oils except Group I can legally be called “synthetic”, but there are different chemical properties and characteristics associated with each of Groups II through V.

 

[MolaKule]

I have no idea what your point might be.

What are the numbers before the VI's? Did you swipe something?

http://www.synmaxperformancelubricants.com/PDFs/SynMax_UNV_Automotive_ Base_Oil_Presentation.pdf

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10 - Oil Base Stocks.pdf

http://www.slideshare.net/boricua67/my-base-oil-and-fundamentals-basic-3074291

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/618/new-lubes

www.lubeng.com/LElibrary/docs/DocBinBlob.aspx?Download=1&ID={88b0b346-b812-4700-9d03-77b2d2c1f66b}&AttID={ac0c1991-74f7-e111-9a95-001372110544}&Version=1 www.lubeng.com/LElibrary/docs/DocBinBlob.aspx?Download=1&ID=%7B88b0b346-b812-4700-9d03-77b2d2c1f66b%7D&AttID=%7Bac0c1991-74f7-e111-9a95-001372110544%7D&Version=1

http://www.baseoilmarket.com/oil.php

http://www.chevronbaseoils.com/faq.aspx

 

[MolaKule]

A new GroupV base oil:

http://www.dow.com/ucon/osp/pdf/L104_22_DOW_Lube_Tech_v2.PDF

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Borrowed is a better word!

Is group II....hydrocracked oil considered synthetic oil now?

http://universallubes.com/about/lubetalk/is_it_a_synthetic

 

[Rand]

IMO this is a sensitive post that will be different depending on where the poster is from and could result in trolling.

my 2 cents

no.

because if the oil is hydrocracked/refined enough it will automatically become group III

and then you can debate if group III is syn.
which has been argued to death.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
After a federal court ruled that hydrocracked oils are also “synthetic”, a lot of “synthetic lubricant” formulations were introduced on the market formulated with high-performance petroleum oil base stocks.


What Federal Court course case are they talking about???? I think there is misinformation in this article.

In my view, only GroupIV and V base oils are truly synthetic.

What court or Better Business institution would know anything about the chemistry of Lubrication Engineering?

This topic has been debated ad nauseum here and elsewhere.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Fair enough....the group II issue is what drew my attention. I know Chevron has Iso-Syn group II and it started me wondering if this oil formulation could be considered a synthetic as well. We can close this subject off as far as I am concerned.

LCM

 

[MolaKule]

I am not trying to discourage discussion, just trying to make some clarifications.

GroupII and II+ base oils have become improved due to new refining technologies, and with improved additives, the performance of those oils formulated with GroupII and II+ base oils has improved remarkedly.

While ISOCRACKING, ISODEWAXING, and ISOFINISHING result in GroupIII oils with greater oxidation stability and approach GroupIV base oils in performance, in my view they are simply higher purity base oils resulting from higher levels of refining technology, but are not synthetic according to my purist views.

 

[Shannow]

^ what he said

 

[Clevy]

Group 3 oils aren't synthetic. I don't care what kind or level of refinement it gets exposed to it isn't synthetic ,it's processed conventional.
Now in operation would a person or engine notice the difference in operation or performance,likely not since they perform almost as good as the true syns,just without the higher price tag.
I'm actually watching for deals now and can regularly finding pennzoil platinum for less than a quality conventional. Why pay more for group 4s unless you have an application that truly required it.
Jmo

 

[aquariuscsm]

Are there actually any real world advantages of a pao over a grp III?

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Are there actually any real world advantages of a pao over a grp III?


Good read for you:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

 

[Shannow]

It's a good read, and the second last paragraph speaks volumes on the reality of the terminology.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Group 3 oils aren't synthetic. I don't care what kind or level of refinement it gets exposed to it isn't synthetic ,it's processed conventional.
Now in operation would a person or engine notice the difference in operation or performance,likely not since they perform almost as good as the true syns,just without the higher price tag.
I'm actually watching for deals now and can regularly finding pennzoil platinum for less than a quality conventional. Why pay more for group 4s unless you have an application that truly required it.
Jmo


Jmo, you could also argue that group 4 and 5 are derived from oil as well?

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: DragRace


Good read for you:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends


Excellent read, thanks!

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Jmo, you could also argue that group 4 and 5 are derived from oil as well?


Crude oil basestocks provide the basic building blocks for synthethic PAO's, as well as many (but not all) Esters and are necessary to produce many synthesized base oils. I say many but not all, because some esters are produced from bio sources.

http://www.aip.com.au/industry/fact_refine.htm

Speaking in basic terms, with a synthesis procedure, chemically smaller molecules of low molecular weight are combined to build a completely different, but more uniform molecule. The resulting molecule is an excellent, but more costly lubricant.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Jmo, you could also argue that group 4 and 5 are derived from oil as well?


My opinion as well. I read on Mobil`s page a few years back,where they said all synthetic oil starts off as crude oil straight from the ground.

 

[Shannow]

Except Molakule's definition is in the true chemical sense rather than opinion.

"synthetic" isn't a performance level, it's a process, which is now being used to define performance.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Are there actually any real world advantages of a pao over a grp III?


From the Machinery Lubrication Link:

Quote:
As base oil technology continues to evolve and improve, consumers will enjoy even greater protection of automobiles, trucks and expensive machinery such as turbines. Lubrication performance that previously was achieved only in small-volume niche applications, using PAO and other specialty stocks, is now widely available using the new generation of Group II and Group III oils.



Quote:
Selected top-tier lubricants requiring PAO will continue to coexist with Group III oils as they have for years in Europe. But widespread availability of modern Group II and III mineral oils is accelerating the rate of change in lubricant markets. New and improved base oils are helping engine and equipment manufacturers economically meet increasing demands for better, cleaner lubricants.


Which is essentially what I said before the ML link was posted.

Don't think for a momoment that in your modern daily driver oil there is only one
type of base oil in there.

To hit a performance target, formulators may use a as many as 4 different types of base oils with the additive package to attain their performance goals.

Again, this discussion should be about total performance of a fully formulated oil, and not concentrating on one base oil or oils.