Do the injectors really need to be cleaned?

[Falcon_LS]

Got a call from the local Ford dealership this morning regarding my Explorer. I do my own maintenance on it, but I was "threatened" that if they didn't see the truck periodically, I would lose my warranty. Only way around it is to take it to them and get them to do all the services I "missed".

Anyhow, the service adviser who called me asked for the mileage and I told him I was closing in on 30,000 km (18,750 miles). He said I have a "major service" coming up and should consider bringing the truck in. When asked what the "major service" at such low mileage was, he said the fuel filter needs to be replaced and the injectors need to be cleaned at the princely sum of $217 including the oil change.

Call me nuts, but I run Liqui Moly's Fuel Injector Cleaner at every second fill up. It has a high PEA content, and there's not even any carbon deposits or build up in my tailpipe. The engine runs smooth as butter, even when pushed to the limit (sees 6,000 rpm regularly), and I don't see anything about fuel injector cleaning at this mileage in the manual. I'm also running Euro V rated gas ($3.48/gallon) in this truck to protect the emissions system (10 ppm sulfur instead of 500 ppm otherwise).

I can understand the fuel filter, but do I really need to pay someone to pull the manifold off and run the injectors through a cleaning machine at 19,000 miles?

Anyhow, had a word with the service manager and said I would be happy to bring the truck in only if it was acceptable to supply my own engine oil (happy with the Motorcraft fluids and parts they use otherwise). They use Mid Eastern Castrol GTX 10w30 which "meets the requirements of API SL" with no ILSAC or any other accreditation. When the truck ran on this garbage, the engine was so loud it was unbelievable. The SM said he was happy for me to supply my own oil otherwise, but I'm still not entirely convinced they're pulling this warranty [censored] on me.

 

[surfstar]

You don't need to change a fuel filter at 30,000km either. Is it even a serviceable filter?
I'll let someone else chime in on how they're using the warranty as a scare tactic for maintenance work/$$.

 

[Falcon_LS]

The filter is serviceable, yes.

Just wish the same could be said for the transmission.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
You don't need to change a fuel filter at 30,000km either. Is it even a serviceable filter?
I'll let someone else chime in on how they're using the warranty as a scare tactic for maintenance work/$$.


Most fuel filters now a days are inside the tank and non servicable. I would go above to the SM's manager and complain about his threats. He is forcing you to come in for unecessary work. Unless it is stated in Ford's manual I would not listen to this quack.

This might also explain why I am black listed from my local GM dealership. I didnt put up with their [censored] and followed what GM told me to do during my warranty. 98k miles later my car still purrs.

 

[Kuato]

Heh, I'd ask him to show me where it says that the warranty would be lost if you don't take it to the dealer.

 

[bepperb]

I'd be surprised if they pull the injectors and run them through a machine. I'd assume they're using a machine that hooks to the fuel rail (at best) or pouring a bottle into your gas tank (more likely here).

It's strange both items relate to fuel and you note there is a large variance in the quality of gasoline locally available. Maybe there is a regional warranty requirement most US based people on BITOG aren't aware of?

 

[DBMaster]

+1 on the FF. If it even is serviceable it wouldn't need to be changed for more than 60,000 miles. Injectors are very questionable as well. On my last car I had to replace injectors that had casing leaks at well over 100,000 miles. The solvents in gasoline must be pretty effective because the nozzles were plenty clean. I honestly think injector cleaning service and injector cleaning additives are a waste of money. IMO, of course.

 

[JOD]

I don't know enough about the differences in fuel quality to have an opinion on your situation, but I'll throw this out there: on US gas, I've changed my FF every 30K miles for the first 100K (for warranty considerations). I cut them all open when I changed them (sliced the #@$@# out of my hand on one of them!). Needless to say, now that I'm out of warranty I won't be doing that any longer. I'll do it every 50K and even that seems like overkill. The all looked pretty much new.

Of course, I have no clue how the pumps are maintained over there, fuel quality of the Euro-spec fuel, etc. Still, 18K miles seems a bit, well, insane.

 

[TFB1]

I'd look at the Scheduled Maintenance Guide and put in into memory, so when X is recommended you can instantly say "the guide says Y"...

There is a 30K mi recommendation for fuel & air filter replacement on my '07 Grand Marquis... It did get a air filter, never worried about the fuel filter as I've never seen one that was even slightly dirty that didn't have past 80K mi on it...

As far as injector cleaning, I don't use additives and never had a issue...

 

[HerrStig]

The new single line fuel systems don't load filters up. I have 300 K on a Toyota filter. Too many folks have broken a fuel fitting trying to get the filter off. Perhaps the fuel in your area isn't as clean.

 

[Andy636]

My advice would be to play along with what the dealer tells you during the warranty period. If god forbids something fails in your car during warranty they can deny you the repairs under warranty or give you the run around until you get bored and decide to pay out of your own pocket.

 

[punisher]

Every maintenance service required is in your owners manual, or your maintenance guide that accompanies the owner's manual.

Fuel filter replacement, injector cleaning etc is not a requirement to keep your warranty intact......unless it is required as written in your maintenance guide/owner's manual.

Injectors- Ever since the introduction of DRI in '91, I can count the number of actual clogged injectors I ran across on one hand (that is in over 10 years a a FoMoCo performance tech). In all cases it was due to bad fuel, or old gas.

In my shop we had what was known as a "30K". Oil/filter change, tire rebal/rotate, fuel filter,trans service(new filter if swappable), air filter, BG MOA and BG 44K, wiper blades etc. Plus we inspected it to see whatever work we could upsell on it.

 

[bdcardinal]

Guys, look where the OP is from. The laws there regarding warranties are drastically different. Plus your warranty is done through the dealer on models imported and not normally domestically available in that market. That being said, the dealer is being lame on their end.

 

[MarkStock]

I suggest

1) You read up on your warranty requirements. Most here wouldn't know the fine print of warranties in Kuwait. They may actually have a point.

2) You also read up on your maintenance schedule really closely. Here are some nuances from the 2004 Ford maintenance schedule:

Fuel filter is 30k but under severe service (includes dusty conditions), it is 15k.

The dealer may actually be correct.

On the injectors, it sounds like it's putting solution through the fuel rails. So linking this to changing the fuel filter, it seems that there might be a concern about how the Explorer handles fuel there.

You should actually talk to them to understand this more. They might accept that your gas choice and additive choice mean they don't need to do the fuel injector service and you can get the fuel filter changed and cut it open to inspect it and share your findings with them.

 

[badtlc]

My 2007 required fuel filter every 30k. I did it because it was so easy. It was right underneath the rear driver side door and was a 5min DIY job.

 

[gathermewool]

We're a bit spoiled here, aren't we?

I'd try to have a conversation with the guy, and let him know that you'd like to make him happy by performing these additional, not-required, dealer-recommended services, so long as he's there to help you out should a warranty issue arise, and try to negotiate the price, as well, ESPECIALLY if the injector service comsists of them dumping a $5 additive in your tank.

IMO, simply letting him fleece you will do more harm than good should you require warranty work, since fleecing you one more time will be that much easier. Even here in the States, building a rapport with the service guys is pretty important.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[Silk]

I used to have an ASNU fuel injection cleaner bench in my workshop, and 15 years ago that was all good. I used to advertise it and would clean injectors for other shops in the area. But I didn't really see that many faulty injectors, and checking before and after spray patterns and flow rates I didn't see any improvement. After a few years I started asking people why they wanted an injector clean, when they told me the symptoms I'd say we'd look at some other things first before we pulled the injectors....invariably there was some other issue that we cleared up. In the end it was just an expensive machine we used 2 or 3 times a year.

 

[Trav]

I get a lot of really dirty injectors coming in. The ASNU is running everyday.
The ethanol causes major problems, i get a lot from marina's that are really clogged.

 

[LeakySeals]

Trav,
Would a bottle of techron concentrate plus in the tank prior to every oil change (7-8k) be a waste of money?

 

[antiqueshell]

I'd first read the owner's manual warranty instructions for Kuwait (and your specific model) and then I would call Ford Corporate ME and see what they have to say.

I call bunk on that cleaning of the injectors. Not as sure about the replacement of the fuel filter though. I would definitely read the warranty carefully and follow up with Ford Corporate ME directly if you are still not sure about the specifics.