Do I really need a synthetic?

[bigwillie]

I was just wondering what your opinions were on this. I have an 88 Ford Bronco II with 45k. I was sure I needed to switch to a synthetic for the longer drains and extended protection until I saw this UOA. BITOG
This makes me think that I could run a good dino or syn blend like Havoline of Trop Artic with some lube control and get about the same wear and extended drains for about half the cost of using a synthetic like Amsoil. What are your opinions?

 

[wavinwayne]

I say go for it! The rest of your Bronco II will probably wear out long before that engine dies.

 

[LarryL]

Being aware of how your Bronco is running and changing whatever oil you pick at some reasonable interval and doing the other maintenance like radiator flushes, brake fluid flushes and air filter changes, etc, is more important than the exact brand and viscosity of oil you pick. I know the oil nerds might argue but regular maintenance, driving habits and the climate are the key factors in making a vehicle last. Your oil choice will have an effect on the deal but, withing reasonable limits it isn't much.

Having said all that, I use a synthetic oil, change it too often and use FP and LC. My oldest car, a Civic, 21 years old, with 376k+ miles, and is running like new. When you remove the valve cover to adjust the valves you see what looks like an engine that was assembled yesterday. The head has never been off and the compression is dead even and at new car specs. The secret is good maintenance, reasonable driving habits and living in San Diego. The car has never seen snow or temperatures below freezing and that is more important than the synthetic oil.

 

[1999nick]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LarryL:
Being aware of how your Bronco is running and changing whatever oil you pick at some reasonable interval and doing the other maintenance like radiator flushes, brake fluid flushes and air filter changes, etc, is more important than the exact brand and viscosity of oil you pick. I know the oil nerds might argue but regular maintenance, driving habits and the climate are the key factors in making a vehicle last. Your oil choice will have an effect on the deal but, withing reasonable limits it isn't much.

Having said all that, I use a synthetic oil, change it too often and use FP and LC. My oldest car, a Civic, 21 years old, with 376k+ miles, and is running like new. When you remove the valve cover to adjust the valves you see what looks like an engine that was assembled yesterday. The head has never been off and the compression is dead even and at new car specs. The secret is good maintenance, reasonable driving habits and living in San Diego. The car has never seen snow or temperatures below freezing and that is more important than the synthetic oil.

---

The number one thing of importance is that it is a Honda. As a matter of curiosity, how many times have you changed the timing belt in 376,000 miles?

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I have to disagree with LarryL. Synthetic oil is exactly why he is seeing a like new engine at 376,000 miles. I have driven several cars to the 300,000 mark. I can tell you regular 3000 mile changes will not get you a like new engine. LC may improve dino but I KNOW synthetic can improve on this. I have been there and done the dino with poor results. I now know better and both my cars get synthetic and look like new inside when you take off the valve cover. 6000 to 10,000 miles changes are possible also with synthetic. UOA are great but don't show everything going on inside your engine.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

For your climate bigwillie I recomend Mobil 1 10w30.

 

[San Diego Mac]

Hear! Hear! LarryL!

You said it all, and said it well!

I will be switching my 2003.5 Jag XKR with 15,000 miles from Pennzoil 15w40 Long Life to Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40 Euro at my next oil change at 20,000 miles.

I then plan to go to the Jag specified OCI of 10,000 miles (until now 5K) with analysis every 5K miles until I get a good baseline showing everything is working well. Also, my sump holds 8 1/2 quarts and I have a big oil cooler.

I also just started using LC and FP and will be posting my oil analyses for the LL just drained without LC, and the one I will get after the current fill with LC is drained. Since all variables between the two intervals will be minimal, with the exception of the LC being added, the differences in the analyses should be interesting.

I fully expect my supercharged engine to get to 450,000 miles with this maintenance. And I do occasionally run this car to 165+ mph, WOT all the way. (Never have found the top speed yet as I always run out of safe, visible road ahead first.) At 62 y.o. I am too old to live long enough to see if the engine will make it this far, but my two sons, 23 and 25 y.o., will have the pleasure of seeing the results. (They are under strict orders to never sell this car!!!!)

Of course, homey, we do live in S.D., and a "cold start" to us is 50°F isn't it?

 

[bigwillie]

If I do need to use a synthetic oil as some of you say what weight and brand do you recommend for my application

 

[Darryl]

How about the Valvoline Max Life Synthetic? (5/10w-30)

By looking at the VOA's and the few UOA's it seems to be a real stout oil, probably Valvoline's best oil.


Darryl

 

[kcryan]

It all depends on how long you want to keep the car, how much you like it, and your current financial situation. If you love the car, want to keep it for a long long time, and have some extra cash that you can use on synthetic oil (although with extended OCI's i suppose synthetic can pay for itself)(or just do what i did and grab as many of the pepboys calender as you can)

What engine does this bronco have and what weight is reccomended? also how did it get these 45k miles(was it 17 years of 2600 miles) or was it 30k in the first 3 years, 12 years of storage, and then 15k in the last 2.

This should help some of the guru's determine what to use

 

[bigwillie]

my bronco ii with a 2.9L V-6 was only driven once or twice a week by an old lady who never started it in between her drives. It might have had one or two long trips within the first few years. The oil was changed at 3000 miles regardless of how long the oil had been in the engine. And the oil used was most likely Valvoline, Motorcraft, and maybe occasionally some Pennzoil. 10w30 and 5w30 are recommended. It has been driven in an Oklahoman climate that in the summer is usually 90 to 100 degrees and in the winter never usually gets below 10 to 15 degrees most of the time being in the 20 to 30 degree range.

 

[LarryL]

1999nick, the belt gets changed every 60k miles. I think I could do it blind-folded, by now.

And San Diego Mac, 50F is cold, so cold, infact we sometimes close the doors to our deck and put on a long sleeve shirt, brrrrrr.

Although I believe in synthetic oil I'll say it again. The three most important things to getting the most life and use out of a car is regular maintenance, reasonable driving and climate. If you slip on any one of the three, synthetic could become more important. I can make the cheapest Chevy (and there are many choices) on dyno oil in San Diego last longer than the best Lexus (and they are all good choices) on synthetic in Buffalo.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Synthetics:

Added wear protection
Added heat protection
Added cleanliness
Longer OCIs
Better Cold Weather Flow
Peace Of Mind

Much like any insurance you purchase, the better policies are an additional cost. Synthetic insurance is only around $7 more (average 5 qt holding buying oil at regular price) when you figure-in the additional miles it brings to your crankcase (based on 3K OCIs dino & 7.5K OCIs synthetic).

All figures I have are my personal findings for my vehicles.

 

[MIAMI-DADE]

I would never use full syn in such a old car like a '88 bronco.I would stick to dino at this point.You would be asking for trouble with egine
leaks.I used 10/30 and 10/40 dino in my Town Car '88 for over 200k.Why on earth look for trouble.

I know some will disagree with me but that is my opinion only.But on my newer cars i do use syn.

 

[Amkeer]

Ya, I wouldn't use full syn in that engine. I would stick with a quality dino and change at 4000 miles or 6 months. You will open a can of worms with an old motor and full synthetic.

Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner,2.7 liter, 4 cylinder, Mobil1 5w30 ODO 16300
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner,3.0 liter,6 cylinder, Mobil1 10w30 ODO 96200
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer

 

[bulwnkl]

Although a synthetic oil user, I disagree with what many people here say. Synthetic oils essentially universally have a stronger add-pack than the non-all-fleet conventionals. That's the main (not the only, but the main) reason they can extend OCIs, possibly improve wear-resistance, and keep things clean. Use Del0 400, Delvac 1300 Super, Super-D III, etc. in 10W30 and you'll get the same results as a synthetic at any price in over 90% of the applications in your climate.

The one thing synthetics really do well is flow in extreme cold. The other thing is resist oxidation in extreme heat. That heat is rarely seen in passenger car service, however. There are applications in SoCal where synthetics shine. Mostly, though, we use them because we want to rather than because we need to.

 

[LarryL]

I put synthetic in an older Toyota pickup, 200k + miles. It was smoking and leaking. First I ran MMO, 1 qt and changed it after 500 miles. Then did it again, but ran the quart for 1000 miles, both times using a cheap dyno oil from WallMart. Then I switched to M1, when I got from Pep Boys with the coupon in the $1.00 calendar. It does not smoke, anymore and the leak leaves a few drops on the ground. This pickup burns about 1 quart per 5k oci, and runs great. Oh, and it gets LC and FP now, and the last oil change, it is now difficult to measure the small leak, it's less now.

I've done this in the past and it has always worked. I put my self through College buying old smokers and cleaning them up with MMO, washing, waxing, vacuuming, and finally, cleaning up the engine compartment with Pledge Furniture Polish, just spray it on and wipe it off. Does the door jams and other small areas without leaving a those polish streaks.

I've never had 'chunks' break loose with MMO and plug anything. I've even had oil filters that were cool to the touch when the engine was hot and just change the filter and oil, to cycle the MMO again. I've had engines so bad that you had to drive a screwdriver up through the oil drain plug hole to get the oil to come out. One engine gave we only two quarts when the dip-stick said full. Several MMO cycles cleaned it up. So, synthetic can be use in an older engine if you flush it out a few times first.