Disappointed in Mobil 1 Gear Lube
- Thread starter Bill in Utah
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I don't see why you are disappointed in a GEAR oil that you used in your MANUAL transmission. IMO, M1 is an excellent gear oil. I'll put it in front/rear-ends and x-cases without worry.
With the number of available MTF/MTL's out there, I would not bother with using it in a manual transmission. Gear oils, especially the LSD safe ones, just don't work too well in some manual transmissions. No point in slamming them for that. Maybe you should blame yourself for using the WRONG fluid for you application. Its no hidden secret that Motul, RoyalPurple, Redline, Amsoil, Torco, SpecialtyFormulations, Neo,..... make gear oils that are optimized for better MT function.
I also see that you ran the factory fill for 22k miles and the M1 for 43k(~65k total). It seems to me that you got your moneys worth. You ran it twice as long as the factory fill. What gives?
Also, without UOAs, fluid looks are meaningless. Sorry, what I see is M1 cleaning and dealing with the leftover from the factory fill.
Mobil-1 makes no claims to being a GL4/GL5 manual transmission fluid for automotive use. The API MT-1 designation is for manuals withOUT synchronizers.
I also recommend that everyone should change their gear oils every 30k miles. UOA it if you want to go longer.
With the number of available MTF/MTL's out there, I would not bother with using it in a manual transmission. Gear oils, especially the LSD safe ones, just don't work too well in some manual transmissions. No point in slamming them for that. Maybe you should blame yourself for using the WRONG fluid for you application. Its no hidden secret that Motul, RoyalPurple, Redline, Amsoil, Torco, SpecialtyFormulations, Neo,..... make gear oils that are optimized for better MT function.
I also see that you ran the factory fill for 22k miles and the M1 for 43k(~65k total). It seems to me that you got your moneys worth. You ran it twice as long as the factory fill. What gives?
Also, without UOAs, fluid looks are meaningless. Sorry, what I see is M1 cleaning and dealing with the leftover from the factory fill.
Mobil-1 makes no claims to being a GL4/GL5 manual transmission fluid for automotive use. The API MT-1 designation is for manuals withOUT synchronizers.
I also recommend that everyone should change their gear oils every 30k miles. UOA it if you want to go longer.
That's basically what I said here:
MTF fluid is a "syncromesh" type fluid.
"Syntorq" is a higher viscosity fluid.
Lets look at the Toyota Manual for what is required for my Manual transmission...
Oil Type: Gear Oil API GL-4 or GL-5
Recommend Oil viscosity: SAE 75w-90
Lets look at what I put in: (quote from the web site. Here it is; Mobil 1 75-90 gear oil web page
When you go to that page, look at this;
Mobil 1 Synthetic gear Lubricant LS 75W-90 is intended for initial fill, topping-off or refilling differentials, final drives, transfer cases and other gear applications where lubricants meeting API Service GL-5 and multi-purpose or mild EP gear lubricants are recommended
Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant LS 75W-90 can also be used in rear axles where API Service GL-4 lubricant is recommended
Not recommended for automatic, manual or semiautomatic transmissions for which engine oil or automatic transmission fluids are recommended
So, we have 75w-90 GEAR OIL, GL-4 or GL-5 , and my manual has NOTHING about engine oil or automatic transmission fluids.
Any comments so far?
I put in what is recommended and what Mobil provides.
Again, I put in WHAT the MFG stated and what Mobil stated.
I used the correct fluid according to mobil. Its just garbage fluid.
I was stating that according to Toyotas manual, the factory fill is just to be inspected, no note to replace unless you tow.
I consider a $10 quart of Syn oil lasting 43k miles and performing as it did to be POOR. Esp towards the end, it was performing terrible. Noisy and shifts becoming poor.
But I guess thats ok according to you. No where did I get my moneys worth here.
I prob should have run the factory fill to 65k and would have gotten better service than the 43k of Mobil 1.
I agree that a UOA would tell somethings, but the FACT that the oil was breaking down ( PLEASE will EVERYONE STOP with the CLEANING #@$%! )
If you really THINK that Mobil 1 was cleaning my transmission after 22k miles...
Knock off the koolaid...
Sorry, their email to me when I asked about what oil to use in my 05 Corolla transmission is what I used.
Here is the info out of my manual just to make sure everyone sees it;
I stand by everything I stated in the first post.
bill
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And Pablo sure can draw quite an analogy: Wow, some of those manual trannys sure are hard on fluids! Better get some Amsoil to deal with that.
A Toyota Corolla? Yeah, right..
Hey, If you read any of my posts, you'd see that I am as cheap as you can get.
But, 2 things here...
1. It is without question IMO that Mobil 1 can not handle a Corolla manual transmission.
2. The Amsoil fluid I put in (which Pablo did recommend) works 1000% better than the Mobil 1 (and was cheaper) and we will see how long it lasts. (and you bet I'll be here to post the results)
About a week after I changed the fluid in the transmission, my wife (who did not know and could care less..
For it to be that notice able to her says something to me..
Again, I'm mister cheap. I spend $$ carefully for everything.
It would drive most people crazy...
Take care, Bill
"OR" gives you a choice? Why would you not choose a GL4 fluid in the first place? In the future if you need help on a fluid selection, start a thread here. You'll end up with better options!
I have a choice in my Toyotas and Mazdas too. If I were to use a GL5 in an MT, I would be very selective. Redline NS, Motul gear, Neo HD, Royalpurple MG... have some GL5 MT gear oils. Redline MT90 and Amsoil MTG are my preferred 75w90 MT GL4 fills.
I rarely contact companies for recommendations on their products. They of course will have some technical phone clerk make generic recommendations and/or sell you a product.
I also don't care if a fluid is lifetime fill or not. I maintain all my vehicles. Usually, the FSM or owners manual recommendations don't make sense. Lake of maintenance leads to failure. I'm no supporter of eternal fluid intervals regardless of automakers' claims.
Funny that Mobil1 uses "other gear applications" but doesn't specifically state synchronized manual transmissions, does it? But, they do mention API MT-1 which is for non-synch'd truck transmissions.
Gotta love Toyota. Don't change the gear oil unless you tow. I never knew that Corollas were great tow vehicles.
Gotta run and refill the coolaid. Sorry if you can't accept that you chose the wrong fluid for your application regardless of the owners manual picture or M1's website.
I have a choice in my Toyotas and Mazdas too. If I were to use a GL5 in an MT, I would be very selective. Redline NS, Motul gear, Neo HD, Royalpurple MG... have some GL5 MT gear oils. Redline MT90 and Amsoil MTG are my preferred 75w90 MT GL4 fills.
I rarely contact companies for recommendations on their products. They of course will have some technical phone clerk make generic recommendations and/or sell you a product.
I also don't care if a fluid is lifetime fill or not. I maintain all my vehicles. Usually, the FSM or owners manual recommendations don't make sense. Lake of maintenance leads to failure. I'm no supporter of eternal fluid intervals regardless of automakers' claims.
Funny that Mobil1 uses "other gear applications" but doesn't specifically state synchronized manual transmissions, does it? But, they do mention API MT-1 which is for non-synch'd truck transmissions.
Gotta love Toyota. Don't change the gear oil unless you tow. I never knew that Corollas were great tow vehicles.
Gotta run and refill the coolaid. Sorry if you can't accept that you chose the wrong fluid for your application regardless of the owners manual picture or M1's website.
Noticed you did not comment on the life of the fluid, the cleaning of a 22k transmission or Mobil 1 stating that it was the correct fluid for my app.
I would think by me changing out my lifetime fluid @ 22k I also maintain my cars. Since I get 200k plus out of the ones I keep and the new owners get the same, I must be doing something correct.
I agree that towing with a Toytoa is a joke.. And I do see some hitches on Corollas so someone out there is..
The Manual states what is NEEDED. I put in what Mobil product that met the specs.
The oil did not perform. Esp for a $10 a quart oil.
We will agree to disagree.
Facts. Got to love them...
Take care, Bill
I would think by me changing out my lifetime fluid @ 22k I also maintain my cars. Since I get 200k plus out of the ones I keep and the new owners get the same, I must be doing something correct.
I agree that towing with a Toytoa is a joke.. And I do see some hitches on Corollas so someone out there is..
The Manual states what is NEEDED. I put in what Mobil product that met the specs.
The oil did not perform. Esp for a $10 a quart oil.
We will agree to disagree.
Facts. Got to love them...
Take care, Bill
When I made the comment above about GL-5 synthetic in my Corolla, Pennzoil was what I was talking about. Maybe you have the GL-4, but with the GL-5 synthetic Pennzoil, I literally could not shift gears. Had to limp back to my house in first gear after test driving upon which it was promptly drained.
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I see Honda with relatively short OCI for its manual transaxels and Toyota with lifetime. I don't think there is that much difference in their two transaxels so I use the Honda schedule about every 30K with Redline MT in my Toyota and Mazda. Its the same price as M1. I know it probably could go 50,000.
Although Bill's Toyota manual says you can use 75-90 gear oil in the transaxel , a search of this section on Toyotas with MT would have saved you the trouble of using M1. There aren't any favorable reports for M1 in this application.
Although Bill's Toyota manual says you can use 75-90 gear oil in the transaxel , a search of this section on Toyotas with MT would have saved you the trouble of using M1. There aren't any favorable reports for M1 in this application.
Yes, 2 gear oil services in 65k miles is excellent maintenance.
That Amsoil should serve you well. Consider an early change out(
I towed with a subcompact(similar to a chihuahua wagging a bowling ball tied to its tail) way before class action lawsuits were common. It took common sense driving skills which is lacking nowadays. I was surprised that 'tow' is actually used in owners manuals anymore. Usually you get the warning not to tow anything ever.
okidokie is right, I guarantee that if All Automatics Most Come Out would sell a rebuild for EVERY issue. I know plenty of shops that would do the same. At the sign of issues, find a new fluid.
I find that transmissions can be selective. Just because one likes a certain fluid, doesn't mean that it twin on the assembly line will like it too. There is too much tolerance in tranny manufacturing clearances. But, its too expensive to tighten that tolerance closer to spec.
Pennzoil has gl4 and gl5 gear oils in the 80w90 and 75w90 spec. The GL4's are hard to come buy. Some of the quicklubes seem to have it in cases. Otherwise you need to try the yellow pages for a Pennzoil supplier. Walmart sometimes has the GL5 pz synth ear oil. Stalube/Coastal also have the GL4's but I don't believe that they are synth.
M1 75w90, IMO, sucks as a MTF. But, I've never had x-case, front/rear-end issues with it. It is an excellent gear oil. Find something else for the manual!
I notice a Subie in your signature. What does the new Subie requires for the manual trannies?
Nissan's tend to require the GL4 with no mention of GL5. Mazdas tend to use the 'OR' like Toyota. To me, that means that they don't care for shift quality or lack reasonable maintenance intervals.
That Amsoil should serve you well. Consider an early change out(
I towed with a subcompact(similar to a chihuahua wagging a bowling ball tied to its tail) way before class action lawsuits were common. It took common sense driving skills which is lacking nowadays. I was surprised that 'tow' is actually used in owners manuals anymore. Usually you get the warning not to tow anything ever.
okidokie is right, I guarantee that if All Automatics Most Come Out would sell a rebuild for EVERY issue. I know plenty of shops that would do the same. At the sign of issues, find a new fluid.
I find that transmissions can be selective. Just because one likes a certain fluid, doesn't mean that it twin on the assembly line will like it too. There is too much tolerance in tranny manufacturing clearances. But, its too expensive to tighten that tolerance closer to spec.
Pennzoil has gl4 and gl5 gear oils in the 80w90 and 75w90 spec. The GL4's are hard to come buy. Some of the quicklubes seem to have it in cases. Otherwise you need to try the yellow pages for a Pennzoil supplier. Walmart sometimes has the GL5 pz synth ear oil. Stalube/Coastal also have the GL4's but I don't believe that they are synth.
M1 75w90, IMO, sucks as a MTF. But, I've never had x-case, front/rear-end issues with it. It is an excellent gear oil. Find something else for the manual!
I notice a Subie in your signature. What does the new Subie requires for the manual trannies?
Nissan's tend to require the GL4 with no mention of GL5. Mazdas tend to use the 'OR' like Toyota. To me, that means that they don't care for shift quality or lack reasonable maintenance intervals.
I thought the only reason they wanted a GL-4 versus a GL-5 is due to the more corrosive nature of the GL-5 on the yellow metals???
I for one had issues with M1 in a rear diff application, and I would never recommend it to anyone since there are much better and cheaper lubes out there...
steved
I for one had issues with M1 in a rear diff application, and I would never recommend it to anyone since there are much better and cheaper lubes out there...
steved
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I wonder how many mechanical problems get misdiagnosed as attributed to fluids?
A lot that I personally know about...the NV5600 is aften torn down for "synchronizer problems" when a simple fluid change is usually all that is needed...I have seen that a lot.
steved
I personally have well over 200k on PZ 75w90 synthetic...and the NV4500 is somewhat finicky about the fluid you use in it...but not nearly as bad as a NV5600. We used a Richmond Gear gear oil in the NV4500 once...the tranny shredded that oil in under 5k (went in blue, drained like burn water).
We routinely change the PZ out on 50k cycles and have had zero issues to date...it is by far a better fluid than the OE Syntorq that it came with...and the PZ always drains clean.
Maybe we are seeing one of those, "this tranny likes it, but this one doesn't" type thing???? I know the NV5600 is very finicky on oil, and to me that means that others could be as well...
steved
In my opinion, the Toyota recommendation for fluid for the tranny is not specific enough. They are clearly doing a disservice to their customers with their description of a fluid for their trannys.
Undummy, you should know that the difference between GL-4 and GL-5 fluids is not understood by most people. (and no, it is not about corrosion to yellow metals).
Toyota should be telling their owners to use a 75W90 fluid designed for use in Manual Transmissions. The easiest way to say that is to require a GL-4 fluid. M1 is not that fluid.
Undummy, you should know that the difference between GL-4 and GL-5 fluids is not understood by most people. (and no, it is not about corrosion to yellow metals).
Toyota should be telling their owners to use a 75W90 fluid designed for use in Manual Transmissions. The easiest way to say that is to require a GL-4 fluid. M1 is not that fluid.
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C'mon Winston, gonna enlighten us with some info about EP and AW additives?
I am no expert that is for sure. THE expert (Mola) has stated many times that the difference between GL-4 and GL-5 is that GL-4 fluids are designed to work well in manual trannys and GL-5's are designed to work well in differentials. ie, you are going to get better shifting with a GL-4 fluid in a manual tranny. It has also been stated that most modern GL-5 fluids do not hurt yellow metals. I would consider the yellow metal thing to be an internet myth.
Just to add.
Here is the bottle that I used 44k ago. Since there was oil left I kept it.
Here is a photo of the back of the bottle.
Noice the words; Maximum protection for Manual transmissions where a API GL-5 is recommended.
I know that its a poor oil now, but with the Email and Mobil even stating on the bottle that it is for Manual transmissions I rest my case...
And undummy is correct, I SHOULD
have asked here before WASTING my money on this product...
Take care, Bill
Here is the bottle that I used 44k ago. Since there was oil left I kept it.
Here is a photo of the back of the bottle.
Noice the words; Maximum protection for Manual transmissions where a API GL-5 is recommended.
I know that its a poor oil now, but with the Email and Mobil even stating on the bottle that it is for Manual transmissions I rest my case...
And undummy is correct, I SHOULD
Take care, Bill
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